210 gallon Frontosa build

[ken31cay]

It took slightly larger pH swings to bother even my wild caught Frontosa so I would think that a change from 8.2 to 7.8 should not cause stress in F1 frontosa. What about your water's GH? I found this to be a crucial parameter for my wild caught Frontosa. Is there a significant change in GH after a water change?

 

[Caperguy99]

It took slightly larger pH swings to bother even my wild caught Frontosa so I would think that a change from 8.2 to 7.8 should not cause stress in F1 frontosa. What about your water's GH? I found this to be a crucial parameter for my wild caught Frontosa. Is there a significant change in GH after a water change?

I’ll have to check - it’s always been fairly high and stable, sitting at around 17 degrees. However, I’ve never checked immediately before and after a water change. I’ll do that next week.

 

[ken31cay]

I only had a problem with GH when I didn't realize how important it was and varied the epsom salt in my buffer mixture. You probably shouldn't have an issue there.

 

[danotaylor]

I’m actually on a well - so it probably changes a bit with the seasons? But no CO2 as far as I know -

It’s actually .4 - 8.2 to 7.8. Would that still be fine in your estimation?

Also thanks!

It's a pleasure to share info & experiences mate!

I wouldn't expect a 0.4 variation to be problematic to be honest. Not as problematic as trying to pH match water out of the well to the tank pH anyway. The nitrogen cycle is a naturally acidifying process so there will almost always be some measure of pH drop from 1 water change to the next.

When I kept discus I would "age" my water 24hrs in a 50gal barrel with an airstone & heater as discus are sensitive to the microbubbles created as municipal water depressurizes, but, with well water, you don't have to worry about that even.

 

[Caperguy99]

Feeling a bit frustrated to be honest.

After the 40% water change yesterday, my biggest and smallest are definitely seeming stressed. They both went black and were essentially laying in the caves all day. I’m hoping they both survive. The others are swimming about normally, aside for some flashing here or there.

Tested some parameters again today:

PH is back up to 8.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 5

I’ll try GH and KH later, but those have generally been stable. I temperature match my water by hand, but usually it’s close enough - in my mind - usually not off by more than a degree.

No idea what the big issue is, but maybe I’ll dial back the water changes to 20% weekly or so for awhile. I still feel like I have a lot of water volume, so I can’t imagine the nitrates will rise too quickly.

 

[danotaylor]

Very unlikely Kh/Gh related.
How deep is your well?
Is your area experiencing a big melt right now?
Just wondering about the potential of toxins leaching into the ground water
With deep wells it is likely not usually a problem, but if your well is shallow and in an agricultural area, possibly a ground chemical
Do you have a carbon block filter on your well supply?
We had toxic city water in Toledo back in 2014 causes by microcytins from a blue green algae bloom at the water catchment in Lake Erie. The city x 5 the chlorine/chloramine content to try to make the water safe. I literally had to run my water change water though a carbon block and dose Prime at 5x the dose for 6 whole months or my fish would lay in the bottom black and die.

 

[Caperguy99]

Very unlikely Kh/Gh related.
How deep is your well?
Is your area experiencing a big melt right now?
Just wondering about the potential of toxins leaching into the ground water
With deep wells it is likely not usually a problem, but if your well is shallow and in an agricultural area, possibly a ground chemical
Do you have a carbon block filter on your well supply?
We had toxic city water in Toledo back in 2014 causes by microcytins from a blue green algae bloom at the water catchment in Lake Erie. The city x 5 the chlorine/chloramine content to try to make the water safe. I literally had to run my water change water though a carbon block and dose Prime at 5x the dose for 6 whole months or my fish would lay in the bottom black and die.

Very interesting - no melting yet, and the well is pretty deep. No carbon filter on it, but I also used the water for a 50% water change for my beta tank yesterday and he still seems fine.

Maybe my Frontosa are just a touch susceptible to changes, especially since they’re still young?

If they get through whatever caused this shock, I’ll try and reduce to smaller water changes for the foreseeable future and see how that suits them.

 

[danotaylor]

Ok mate. Could just be a random anomaly I guess.
The unique thing about bettas is that they have gills and a breathing apparatus called a labyrinth. Even if their gills experience a level of damage, they can still breathe…
Bummer all the stress you’re experiencing with these cyphos

 

[Caperguy99]

Ok mate. Could just be a random anomaly I guess.
The unique thing about bettas is that they have gills and a breathing apparatus called a labyrinth. Even if their gills experience a level of damage, they can still breathe…
Bummer all the stress you’re experiencing with these cyphos

Eh, it’s par for the course I guess - all things considered, I’m a pretty new fish keeper. Haven’t kept cichlids at all long term until now. I did my research for the setup, but I guess it’s a baptism by fire!

Not too stressful, just working my way through the usual hurdles I suppose.

 

[Bwirtz]

I would continue to monitor your perimeters. I used to do a lot more water changes than I do now. Testing a few times per week now with text strips to monitor ph, gh, and nitrates. I'm on city water and also use a test strip prior to putting the water in the tank to ensure no crazy swings from the municipal source. Generally out of the tap I have liquid rock living in Michigan, high pH and gh.

I also add some buffer to the recommended level and Seachem safe. You are doing everything right, just keep an eye on it.