Advice needed

[RD.]

Arowana are not groomed, They breeders are manipulating the buyers into buying something they are not. Same basis as injecting FH and discus with color hormones befor they go on the market. If I put a silver aro through a white treatment, then sell it as a high shine, in a couple weeks that shine will disappear. High shine aros can go for just as much as an Asain Aro and all you need to a good light and a styrofoam box.

You obviously have little or no experience with Asian arowana, or Asian aro breeders, as none of what you just stated is true. Myself, I've seen & handled enough Asian aros to know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to grooming techniques. As a matter of fact, I just helped unpack approx 30 pieces that were flown in from Singapore two nights ago.

Grooming a fish using WTT, or BTT, isn't anything even remotely close to injecting fish with hormones. That comment is about as absurd a thing as I have ever read on MFK.

Using WTT on an Asian aro xback does nothing more than show the future potential of the fish. In a high quality piece some of the shine will defintely fade when placed in a darker environment, but there is no "trickery" involved, and only an idjit will be fooled into buying something that it is not. In high quality pieces, from reputable farms, any loss of shine in a xback will always return as the fish matures. Grooming red aros in a tank with black background, and dark substrate, simply allows the fish to show its best potential, just as that fish would in the murky waters of its natural habitat. Unless of course you prefer a light tank, with white sand, and a washed out red fish.

Below are a list of things that one should look for in juvenile Asian aros, the amount of shine is but a small part of the equation.

Xbacks

1. How high is the shine?
2. Pearlies?
3. Bullet or spoony?
4. Gold on the head?
5. Color of gold.
6. Body shape. Is he a healthy weight or skinny.
7. How does it eat?
8. Tail shape. Does it have a large wide fan tail or smaller, uneven tail.
9. Swim posture. Does he swim around with fins against the body or flared out.
10. Base color of the scales.
11. How are the eyes? Drop eye? Clear and attentive. Are the eyes too big for his body?
12. Is the mouth even or does it have PLJ or overbite?

Reds

Same as above, but also look for

1. Is color cracking on the gills.
2. Is rim color coming in?
3. Base color. Usually blue or green.
4.Lips. Does he look like he wears red lipstick? This is a good indication.
5. Barbels should be long and even. Not as long in XB's but nonetheless important. They should be straight not curled. This can be due to poor water quality.

If you would like a more detailed explanation as to how or why Asian breeders use various grooming techniques on juvie Asian aros, go here & ask Koji.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=215



To the OP, sorry for derailing your discussion, but I have a difficult time ignoring ignorance.

 

[FishingOut]

Wow RD. You are a bit more confrontational than I thought, But thanks for the rant.
I live a couple hours from NYC and use to live in Philly, So believe me, I know the tricks of the trade. I wasnt asking how to judge Asain Aro's or claiming that I knew. I was simply stating the bleaching process that happens with the Silvers.

I could take a picture of a flowerhorn and edit it in photoshop, then resell it saying this fish has the potential to look like this. Its false advertising, Plain and simple. Your taking a $100 fish, bleaching it and selling it as a platinium for thousands.
When a common silver aro is bleached and sold as a high shine, your saying the buyer deserves it because they are an uninformed idiot? Good outlook. I look at it as the breeder being unable to breed high quality specimens and they will not be reputable long. From a marketing standpoint, Yes its the same as hormones. Why else would you bleach a fish, other than to get more money from the sale? It's certainly not healthy for the fish.


Again to the OP, sorry for derailing your discussion, but I have a difficult time ignoring smugness.

 

[RD.]

Not a rant at all, just making sure that misinformation isn't spread about on this site by people who are obviosly misinformed. If that comes across to you as being smug, or confrontational, well, I'm sorry for that, it wasn't meant to be.

There's plenty of subjects I know zero about, so if I speak out of turn and someone takes the time to correct me, lesson learned, and I would thank them for taking the time to educate me. I guess not everyone feels the same way.

I live a couple hours from NYC and use to live in Philly, So believe me, I know the tricks of the trade.

Yeah, so? What does that have to do with anything? I grew up along the shore of the Detroit River, does that make me an expert in cars?

Asian aros aren't allowed to even be imported into the USA, but knowing all the tricks in the trade I'm sure that you already knew that, right? How many Asian aros have you actually held in your hands, or even viewed in person? I wasn't discussing SA silver arowana, I was referring specifically to Asian Arowana, BIG difference amigo.

To which you chimed in;

Arowana are not groomed, The breeders are manipulating the buyers into buying something they are not.

FYI - 99% of all gold base Asian aros receive white tank treatment as a grooming technique, and the cream of the crop are selected at very small sizes (as small as 6-8") by serious connoisseurs, such as customers in Japan who can & sometimes do pay 10K+ for a single juvenile fish. You think that buyers dropping that kind of coin on a single fish for their collection are uninformed idiots? Grooming a fish in WTT is not unhealthy for the fish, any more than grooming a fish in a black tank would be. As previously mentioned, it's a grooming technique that allows the full potential of the fish to be seen when still at a juvenile stage of its life.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Again, my comments were & are referring specifically to Asian aros, and FH, not SA silver aros.

Hope that helps.

 

[FishingOut]

Not a rant at all, just making sure that misinformation isn't spread about on this site by people who are obviosly misinformed. If that comes across to you as being smug, or confrontational, well, I'm sorry for that, it wasn't meant to be.

There's plenty of subjects I know zero about, so if I speak out of turn and someone takes the time to correct me, lesson learned, and I would thank them for taking the time to educate me. I guess not everyone feels the same way.

You would make a good lawyer RD.
Thank you for the correction when the only coralation I made with Asain Aro's is that they can be as pricey as high shines Silvers, And you ran with it.
Dont get me wrong its good information, But we are obviously talking about Aros from two opposite sides of the earth.

Yeah, so? What does that have to do with anything? I grew up along the shore of the Detroit River, does that make me an expert in cars?
Good analogy? Maybee you would be If Detroit was the 2nd largest importer of exotic car species and you were a gearhead. Now thats an analogy. This area is crawling with shady shopkeepers and importers trying to make money.

Asian aros aren't allowed to even be imported into the USA, but knowing all the tricks in the trade I'm sure that you already knew that, right? How many Asian aros have you actually held in your hands, or even viewed in person?.

I've seen a couple in person, Havent held one in my hands, But again I never claimed to be any type of expert on Aros in general. I know they are almost extinct in the wild anymore, So how are you importing appox 30, and who approximates with fish expensive as these?

FYI - 99% of all gold base Asian aros receive white tank treatment as a grooming technique, and the cream of the crop are selected at very small sizes (as small as 6-8") by serious connoisseurs, such as customers in Japan who can & sometimes do pay 10K+ for a single juvenile fish. You think that buyers dropping that kind of coin on a single fish for their collection are uninformed idiots? Grooming a fish in WTT is not unhealthy for the fish, any more than grooming a fish in a black tank would be. As previously mentioned, it's a grooming technique that allows the full potential of the fish to be seen when still at a juvenile stage of its life.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Im not going to throw out some crazy number like 99% but we could go back and forth on the topic for days. These "24hr golden arowana lamps" and WTT treatments use to be a hidden technique. If an aro has good genetics this process is unneccessary. Your risking pupil damage and dropeye, just so a younger aro can fetch a higher price. Idk if you are aware of this aspect of the bleaching, But go on aquabid, Im sure you will find some "goldens" and "high shines". These fakes are all over philly and NY as well. Also lower-grade Asain Aros can be sold as high grade crossbacks from 24hr lights in a pure white encolsure. This has nothing to do with judgeing a fish, Just suppliers ripping people off. Everything contradicts, Some people say buy the fish not the cert, and others say buy the cert the fish will have good genetics. I dont know much about these Japanese connoisseurs, But them and the sellers are the only ones WTT benefits.

 

[Pharaoh]

Back on topic.

I have my fader in a tank with a black background and he hasn't lost color, he actually looks better. He was originally in a 30G with a blue background. He seems much more at ease in the new tank and his colors are ridiculous at time.