Air Stone Bubbles Carry Oxygen and NOT Surface Agitation??

[neutrino]

What natural bodies of water demonstrate should be self-evident, most water bodies primarily support life by some form of water movement or turbulence, not from bubbles rising from within their depths (which is not to altogether rule this out from every body of water). Some natural surface turbulence creates bubbles (so can surface splashing in an aquarium). Powered by gravity, the sun, etc. these free sources of kinetic energy are "efficient" in their own particular sense.

This does not disprove your point about oxygen transfer from bubbles. It does serve as a model for why aquariums with favorable water volume, stock levels, surface area, and surface water movement are often sufficient to support fish without something additional to inject bubbles. If in a particular tank this is not sufficient, a primary mechanism for why adding an air pump is an efficient remedy is evident from your information.

That's all. I'm not taking the bait of "folk science" to lose objectivity on this or to further debate something that's already clear.

 

[neutrino]

...And just so I don't need to later acknowledge this, if someone else's approach to their tank is filtration with less water movement (let's say sponge filters) and more bubbles, obviously that works too.

 

[squint]

What natural bodies of water demonstrate should be self-evident, most water bodies primarily support life by some form of water movement or turbulence, not from bubbles rising from within their depths (which is not to altogether rule this out from every body of water). Some natural surface turbulence creates bubbles (so can surface splashing in an aquarium). Powered by gravity, the sun, etc. these free sources of kinetic energy are "efficient" in their own particular sense.

There are in fact quite a few natural bodies of water where artificial bubble aeration is employed.

This does not disprove your point about oxygen transfer from bubbles. It does serve as a model for why aquariums with favorable water volume, stock levels, surface area, and surface water movement are often sufficient to support fish without something additional to inject bubbles. If in a particular tank this is not sufficient, a primary mechanism for why adding an air pump is an efficient remedy is evident from your information.

Moving goal posts. The question is whether Hitesew was initially correct when he said the majority of oxygen transfer is from bubble transfer.

You wanted a study done on an aquarium scale? Well, here you go:





Every study on this subject found that bubble transfer is the majority:









Just how small is surface transfer? Five percent or less!



This is pretty much the complete opposite of what the vast majority of aquarists believe.

What a tragic failure of folk science where crowd sourcing intuitin was supposed to allow everyday folk to solve challenging problems.

Of course, I knew the answer the whole time having done my own experiments and research:

 

[neutrino]

Yes, thanks. Reading objectively, the above makes evident what I said earlier, the ratio of one to the other varies with varying equipment and conditions. My argument was and is with the claim that bubbles NOT surface action adds oxygen. As I've said, it is not either/or and the ratio of one to the other clearly depends on the system. This is simple and fundamental. The ratios are a moving target according to system-- in my tanks without air stones, oxygen exchange overwhelmingly takes place via surface action. I have no need to add an air pump to a tank that is already functioning perfectly without one.

We're making two different points, both valid and not mutually exclusive.

 

[squint]

Give it up, the myth is busted.

 

[Hendre]

?

 

[RD.]

It does serve as a model for why aquariums with favorable water volume, stock levels, surface area, and surface water movement are often sufficient to support fish without something additional to inject bubbles.

Exactly

The ratios are a moving target according to system-- in my tanks without air stones, oxygen exchange overwhelmingly takes place via surface action. I have no need to add an air pump to a tank that is already functioning perfectly without one.

Agreed, I haven't used an air stone in 20 yrs or more. I had no idea that this was such a hot topic. lol

 

[islandguy11]

Agreed, I haven't used an air stone in 20 yrs or more. I had no idea that this was such a hot topic. lol

Bubble Wars! Lol.

Admitted air stone lover here. Power outages, even if usually not overly long, are not super uncommon here; having air stones (and sponge filters) on ac/dc air pumps that turn on automatically when power goes out makes a lot of sense. Yeah I'd love to have a generator that switches on automatically (something for future) but I don't.

Another consideration especially during the hot season here is water temperature -- air stones help to reduce this without potentially adding heat to a tank like powerhead filters or wavemakers (though maybe not such an issue with HOB's -- which I can't use as all of my tanks have glass bracing all around the perimeter).

 

[neutrino]

Give it up, the myth is busted.

LOL... Get serious. Tell that to my fish living without air stones for over 20 years. Tell that to the natural bodies of water, like Lake Tanganyika, that depend upon wind action to create oxygenated zones in their upper layers, below which are anoxic zones. Tell that to the world's interconnected system of oceans that depend on huge currents that "slowly turn over water in the entire ocean, from top to bottom" (see link) without which they would have largely anoxic deeper layers.

Up to now I've been treating you as a reasonable person not fixated on making one single point to the exclusion of all other factors or logic. I perceive I was mistaken on this and give up the discussion on this basis alone.

 

[squint]

Myth busted. Give it up!