Brackish Central American Cichlids

WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
0
16
North GA, USA
I have begun increasing my density again. Yesterday, I took out and sold my plecos. My density was SG 1.004. As soon as the plecos were out, I added a cup of sea salt.

So far, I have observed no stresses. Actually, my Cubans' colors have become more defined and vibrant.

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cichlidfish

Peacock Bass
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Jun 18, 2005
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I have begun increasing my density again. Yesterday, I took out and sold my plecos. My density was SG 1.004. As soon as the plecos were out, I added a cup of sea salt.

So far, I have observed no stresses. Actually, my Cubans' colors have become more defined and vibrant.

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That's awesome. Have any pics?


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WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
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16
North GA, USA
I need to take some. I probably need to read the aquatic photography thread too lol. My pics always suck. I will try to get some this evening. I'm actually behind schedule for where I intended to be at now. My wife sprained her ankle and my kids are always in high gear lol. But that gives more time to watch for stressors.

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WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
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North GA, USA
I have to express some concern at this point. I have been increasing my salinity slowly so that I can observe any problems. Right now, I have three concerns that come to mind. First, my smaller male Cuban (2”-3”) is showing signs of ailment. He appears to have inflamed gills and some strange color loss. I must say, though, that I have allowed his color to go for a while with not much thought given; my thoughts were that with the increased salinity, a parasite or infection would give. I do believe that this has been occurring since his purchase. I will continue to observe him and consider medication and isolation after identifying the problem (possibly parasitic?). Second, I believe that I am getting false readings from my hydrometer. The measurement I took yesterday seemed to read less than the measurement from two weeks ago (and I have added two cups of salt since then). According to measurements that are given with the salt, I should be at 1.008, not 1.004. Also, my moss ball seems to be browning. My assumption is that the salinity has reached such that the moss will no longer survive in the given conditions (1.005-1.010?). I will invest in a second hydrometer just to be safe. Third, the largest of my male Cubans (~6”) is staying in hiding. I did turn over the fake stump to run him out, in order that he, at the least, is relatively easy to find for checking his health. He did not eat the spirulina or shrimp pellets. So, I tried krill; he still didn’t emerge. I do also believe that he is establishing his territory. He stays near the female Cuban, which you will see in pics below. I do not believe they are courting for a brood, but I do think that they may eventually pair up. The male Cuban’s colors are pretty. His aren’t the show Cuban colors yet, but he is getting that bluish/violet sheen. I do not have a good recent picture for him. On a note for the female, her color is great. I even noticed that her throat is full and deep black. I do not believe she is ready to spawn, but, again, I do believe that she and the larger male will pair off. I will continue observation for any other signs potential ailments (possible environmental stressors or Cuban cichlid territorial stances/shyness?). Lastly, at around 1.005, the freshwater nitrifying bacteria begin to die and marine nitrifying bacteria begin to grow (N. Monks. Brackish-Water Fishes). This is a vital time, especially if the tank is at about 1.008. I will also need to check my water parameters against my old marine test kit, freshwater kit and the LFS’s kits. I want to ensure that all bases are covered!

I do not have pics of the Mayans yet; they are still just a drab brown color. Though I will post them eventually just to give an early basis for comparison. Here is the female……..

IMG_20130806_213616.jpg

IMG_20130806_211054.jpg
IMG_20130806_210940.jpg

IMG_20130806_210940.jpg

IMG_20130806_211054.jpg

IMG_20130806_213616.jpg
 

duanes

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Not to be a spoiler, but I'm not sure that it's that easy to convert just any cichlid to higher density environment, just because some populations are known to be found there.
Many of the Mayans and Cubans found in brackish, or sea water, have been born in, spent generations there, perhaps over hundreds (even thousands, perhaps millions) of years, and in theory could almost be considered a sub-species (or someday, be given separate species status).
The "uropthalmus variant troeschelii", (which I believe is the one found around Isla de Mujeres), may have a significantly different physiology than "uropthalmus sp conchitae" found in cenotes near Merida, inland.
In a similar manner, I don't know that it would be healthy for the JDs I swam with in the brackish
waters of Eden cenote near the coast, to be put in straight fresh water, albeit gradually.
I'm reasonably sure that there are a certain number of individuals in each cichlid spawn, that have a genetic disposition allowing them to adapt to varying osmotic conditions if the environment happened to drastically change, but a majority of the spawn without that genetic ability might then quickly perish.
Just as your tank there was a die off of bacteria, when the fresh water species were converting to brackish.
With simple life forms like bacteria, multiple dividing generations are the norm over a 24 hour period, and rapid adaptation to a changing environment is standard, but a population of vertebrates may take years to reestablish a significant newly adapted population under altered conditions.
 

Aquanero

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It will be interesting to see how this turns out. While Uro et others can tolerate full sea water I don't think they spend their entire lives in it and at most move from low salenity brackish to full sea water through out thier lives. The acclamation process should be done very slowly IMO since the fish can not move from fresh to brackish to full seawater at will. Even migratory species spend time acclamating in estuarys and bays before moving up rivers and these species have evolved over countless generations. I would try low brackish for a few months before increasing the salenaty level. From your discription the fish seem to be showing signs of stress. Has the bacteria converted to a saline environment? What are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels? If you have discussed this already I'm sorry I didn't read every post. The bottom line is I would go slower. Just my thoughts on the subject.
 

WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
0
16
North GA, USA
Okay thanks for the input. There are a few things which need to be considered. I do appreciate you all following this thread and giving insight and experiences that are more than helpful.

Just to give an update....
I will be removing the Cuban that had the appearance of ailing. He/ she will be quarantined and treated for internal parasites, which I noted that his palate and pattern were slightly off upon arrival to begin with. As far as the nitrifying bacteria, I will monitor closely my parameters and, at a sign of unsuitable water conditions, I will add marine bacteria.

Here is my mostly exciting update for me thus far.... My largest Cuban male began acting reclusive over the past four days, but his coloration and proportions remained healthy. Last night I was observing my fish over my concerns of my previous post. I discover that he is staying close the "caves" on the right of the tank where the female stays. He does come out to eat, which thrills me because I was worried for him. This is good so I continue scanning the tank and notice he has moved the conch shell and dug a bed buggy the caves. The conch has been moved so the opening creates a semi roof over the depression bed he has dug. If I'm correct, then my previous, but unlikely thought may be true.... he may be preparing to form an early bond with the young female.


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cichlidfish

Peacock Bass
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Jun 18, 2005
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I have to express some concern at this point. I have been increasing my salinity slowly so that I can observe any problems. Right now, I have three concerns that come to mind. First, my smaller male Cuban (2”-3”) is showing signs of ailment. He appears to have inflamed gills and some strange color loss. I must say, though, that I have allowed his color to go for a while with not much thought given; my thoughts were that with the increased salinity, a parasite or infection would give. I do believe that this has been occurring since his purchase. I will continue to observe him and consider medication and isolation after identifying the problem (possibly parasitic?). Second, I believe that I am getting false readings from my hydrometer. The measurement I took yesterday seemed to read less than the measurement from two weeks ago (and I have added two cups of salt since then). According to measurements that are given with the salt, I should be at 1.008, not 1.004. Also, my moss ball seems to be browning. My assumption is that the salinity has reached such that the moss will no longer survive in the given conditions (1.005-1.010?). I will invest in a second hydrometer just to be safe. Third, the largest of my male Cubans (~6”) is staying in hiding. I did turn over the fake stump to run him out, in order that he, at the least, is relatively easy to find for checking his health. He did not eat the spirulina or shrimp pellets. So, I tried krill; he still didn’t emerge. I do also believe that he is establishing his territory. He stays near the female Cuban, which you will see in pics below. I do not believe they are courting for a brood, but I do think that they may eventually pair up. The male Cuban’s colors are pretty. His aren’t the show Cuban colors yet, but he is getting that bluish/violet sheen. I do not have a good recent picture for him. On a note for the female, her color is great. I even noticed that her throat is full and deep black. I do not believe she is ready to spawn, but, again, I do believe that she and the larger male will pair off. I will continue observation for any other signs potential ailments (possible environmental stressors or Cuban cichlid territorial stances/shyness?). Lastly, at around 1.005, the freshwater nitrifying bacteria begin to die and marine nitrifying bacteria begin to grow (N. Monks. Brackish-Water Fishes). This is a vital time, especially if the tank is at about 1.008. I will also need to check my water parameters against my old marine test kit, freshwater kit and the LFS’s kits. I want to ensure that all bases are covered!

I do not have pics of the Mayans yet; they are still just a drab brown color. Though I will post them eventually just to give an early basis for comparison. Here is the female……..

View attachment 938432

View attachment 938431
View attachment 938430
Thanks for posting the pics and this one looks good. As for the young one not doing well-I think you can rule out a parasite. The salinity should make it intolerable for most parasites. I would assume if it is a parasite it would be a freshwater one, which may not be able to survive in this water. Since it is young it might be the salinity itself. While these fish in the wild might be able to survive and thrive in brackish or salt water, freshwater bred fish may have a hard time adapting. Also I think you are correct about the bacterial change and that might be affecting the fish as well. I don't know much about saltwater tanks and cycling but I wonder if this could be a problem. If you get these Cubans or mayans to breed in brackish/saltwater then I think the fry would become more tolerant of the salinity.
 

WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
0
16
North GA, USA
I would like to slow all additions down. That seems to be a common idea. I do want to remind everyone that I'm not keeping stenohaline fish that TOLERATE higher salinities. This would indicate that I simply putting their osmoregulation mechanisms to the extreme, hoping that they could cope. I am keeping euryhaline cichlids and catadromous catfish. Please do read the attached articles. The facts of osmoregulation are stated for many types of fish. Please note that some of the statements in these essays based natural history are theories and neither I am implying adoption of these theories nor do state that I do or do not follow the theories stated within.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/RedDrumPhysiology.htm
http://www2.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/VertebrateFishEvolution.htm
 

WinterAlloy

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2012
254
0
16
North GA, USA
Also, I did want to establish that the small Cuban with the poor coloring and markings indicating ailment was in freshwater for a few months and never cleared up. Is discoloration did not begin with saline additions. I described him/ her from the vendor with the defect (I thought it was travel stresses). That Cuban lived in freshwater for about three months before the additions of sea salt. His color was never correct. I will quarantine him for observation.

Also, with the potential of a possible pair, I need to begin the build of my larger aquarium much sooner.

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