Buttkiss, the 41 Year Old Pacu

[pdbrady]

I may be new here but I have a few points on this that no one has brought to the table... Assuming that this story is factual.

I've worked in LFS before, more than a few of them, when we got big pacu from customers, we don't even bother trying to keep them alive, ever, the guys who carry knives beheaded them in the back room, the guys who don't or don't care throw them into back of the frozen food case. Like it or not that's what happens here in the real world, an LFS is a bad place to be a pacu.

The fact that this guy chose to keep the fish alive at all is remarkable.

In that same vein, his shop is on bloody manhattan, I used to live there, rent on that island is insane and has been for the 24 years I've been alive, there's no way this guy could have put that fish in a bigger tank without hurting his business more than he is by dedicating a 75 to something he's never going to be able to sell, and if he lost his business dozens of hobbyists would probably be put out of their favorite shop, afterall he's been there for 40something years serving the hobby.

All things considered, the guy keeping that pacu is doing the best for that fish he can without killing it, he did better by that fish than anybody else ever has. Anybody who wants to criticize him for what he's doing needs to realize that any other fish shop would have killed that fish 41 years ago by default, and it's absolutely phenomonal and a testament to the dude's ability and empathy as an aquarist to keep that fish alive period.

And every person that keeps an oscar in a 10g tank is doing them a favor, because they are keeping them alive......People get FLAMED on a daily basis for things like this (as they should if they know they are not giving what they should), yet he is different because he supposedly made it last for more years than was thought average? The proportion of this tank/fish story in comparison to those that get flamed is far worse. Think of a fish that is close to your heart and interest, then picture me keeping it in a tank 20x too small for more years than "average"....would you congratulate me? I think not. If it's a true story, the guy's an ass, not a hero. If it's not true, he's an idiot for exposing his stupidity. Go to a good large aquarium, you'll see what they should look like. I'm not talking body shape, I'm talking body SIZE. I've seen MANY pacu with years of age that make him look like the cute little guy you just bought at this guy's shop because you thought the "monster" one in his 75 was cool......

ps.....if you "average"...you are taking the sum of total years lived by x amount of fish, and dividing it by the amount of fish. Therefore, with so many 2, 3, 4 year fish, to get 20 as an average, you have to have multiple fish near this age.

 

[MadBob]

I'm not saying the conditions the fish were kept in were ideal, I know it should be a much larger and better formed beast than it is where it's at, but there got a better ride there than it would have at any shop I've worked at.

Oscars in 10 gallons because of ignorance are no comparison to this. This fish had no other option. Tanks suitable to house Oscars are available in virtually every pet shop in the country, that availability puts people who keep oscars in 10 gallons because they're too broke, lazy, or stupid to house them correctly in the wrong. I don't need to tell you that pacu require substantially more room than commercially available aquaria accommodate. The guy taking care of it couldn't do better for it and didn't want to kill it. It's a story about a guy doing the best he could in less than ideal circumstances and a fish surviving in less than optimal shape, but still surviving.

In the same breath you claim to love and adore this creature but then come down on a guy for doing the best he was able in a bad situation on the behalf of this individual specimen. Flame all you like, the alternatives for this fish were a quick death on a blade or a slow death in a freezer.

Since we're being condescending to each other, using innapropriate metaphors, and humanizing fish here why don't we try this paralell? It's 1936 and you're a farmer outside of Berlin, your Jewish neighbors have been chased from their home by Nazis and you have the option of letting them survive in your attic, not nearly enough room to comfortably house a family of 4, and you're only really producing enough food for your own family.. do you let them stay or call down the SS to dispose of your problem?

Personally, I've euthenized over a dozen pacu for this very reason, because this was the only alternative, and I'm impressed someone had the wherewithall to keep one of them alive, I'm also giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that since he's been smart enough to keep a pet shop viable for 40 years (most don't make it through their first year) he'd also have the sense to use the pacu's situation as a cautionary tale to deter other customers from doing the same thing themselves, if he's using his pacu to promote the notion that they can live for 45 years in a 75 then you'd be absolutely right, but there's no evidence of that.

If anyone genuinely feels strongly about this fish I'm sure the shop owner would happily take donations to build his mascot a larger enclosure... Or you could break into the store at night and kill his fish because he did such a horrible thing by keeping it alive when nobody else wanted it.

 

[pdbrady]

There are commercially available tanks larger than a 75, therefore it was NOT the best he could have done based on your conditions and requirements (I believe you said it....lazy, broke, stupid). There is zero difference in my comparison.....if you can't house it, don't have it, period. And no that doesn't mean you take a knife to the damn thing. Don't sell fish that you as the seller cannot properly house yourself. I walk into a fish store, the guy says, "look, this is how not to house a fish, and I'm doing it willingly", .....I walk out. 40 years of business doesn't work that way. As far as the completely outlandish nazi comparison....... When did I get condescending, metaphorical, and start humanizing? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend you're just drunk......

 

[toffee]

I may be new here but I have a few points on this that no one has brought to the table... Assuming that this story is factual.

I've worked in LFS before, more than a few of them, when we got big pacu from customers, we don't even bother trying to keep them alive, ever, the guys who carry knives beheaded them in the back room, the guys who don't or don't care throw them into back of the frozen food case. Like it or not that's what happens here in the real world, an LFS is a bad place to be a pacu.

The fact that this guy chose to keep the fish alive at all is remarkable.

In that same vein, his shop is on bloody manhattan, I used to live there, rent on that island is insane and has been for the 24 years I've been alive, there's no way this guy could have put that fish in a bigger tank without hurting his business more than he is by dedicating a 75 to something he's never going to be able to sell, and if he lost his business dozens of hobbyists would probably be put out of their favorite shop, afterall he's been there for 40something years serving the hobby.

All things considered, the guy keeping that pacu is doing the best for that fish he can without killing it, he did better by that fish than anybody else ever has. Anybody who wants to criticize him for what he's doing needs to realize that any other fish shop would have killed that fish 41 years ago by default, and it's absolutely phenomonal and a testament to the dude's ability and empathy as an aquarist to keep that fish alive period.

 

[MadBob]

I'm done defending the guy... if you don't get it, you don't get it.

The real root of the problem is the import of pacu for the pet trade, it shouldn't be done, we know this, it's been discussed agreed upon and verified at least thrice over on every fish board since the advent of the internet and every aquarium conference since hobbiests figured out that pacu were bigger than a lot of peoples dogs.

The last thing I'm going to say is that there's no reason to demonize and make accusatory remarks about a guy who did his best for a fish with no better option because of poor judgment on the part of whoever first thought importing pacu was a good idea.

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

How do you know the true lifespan of pacu, you or Jeepguy? There are cases of koi living over 200 years..........where do you guys get your information on the longevity of a fish, do you pull out of somewhere?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/balcer17/2255019328/

Not sure what you are getting at with this but i have never said anything about a pacu's life span.

All I have said is that you can not compare a 3,4,5,6yr old pacu to a 40yr old pacu.

Simple

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

You can't give away pacu this size 99% if the time.
But if i purchased a small one. HMM


Well since a 75g gets you 40yrs. If i was 18 again and planned on living another 60-70 yrs then i would go for a 20g to guarantee my fish lived that 60-70yrs.

But since in reality i probably only have another 20-30 yrs worth of life left. I would go for a 300g so that it would die in a couple of years and I can get different fish every few years.

Reading is not your strong point, is it? I said regardless of age. Do not bring age into the picture...

Your question was if you Bought. My reply was you can not give them away at that size most of the time. At that point in time I was done with your question.

I tried to give the best retarded answer to a retarded question. With the hint of a joke mixed in for smile factor. Sorry if I did not follow your guide lines for the proper structure of the answer you were looking for.

Comprehension is when you can understand what you are reading. There are a few execises that you can do in your spare time to really improve this skill. I could link them to you if you would like.

 

[Lupin]

That's the cue to finale. And so ends the great pacu thread with the circling personal arguments. Folks, we can keep debating this thread forever but really, enough has been said.