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Clown Loaches with African Cichlids?

Majority of us fish keepers buy fish from the petstore, or a facility which are fish that are bred for mass selling.. so they are all mostly kept at the same PH... Less upkeep means more time to make $$.

Many fish can be acclimated to a different ph over time, and will do just fine.

I personally have a common pleco with my adult fronts, and anywhere you look it will tell you that they can't be in high ph. My ph in that tank is 8.0

I also have 4 frontosa juvies in my 110 community tank, and my ph in that tank is 7.6- I have clown loaches in that tank.

It's possible to do that, and there are many people that keep fish together that shouldn't necessarily be together, or would never be together in the wild, but this is reality.. it happens- and it's working out just fine.

I say go for it, just make sure you acclimate them well.
 
aclockworkorange;4693150; said:
OK then, let's just throw a group fish in a tank that prefer completely different water parameters because we CAN. Who cares what they prefer? It's all about what I WANT.

Except for the most fragile of fish (discus, blue rams, etc), many fish will thrive in pH that is not normally found in their native homes, so long as it is stable. pH is not as critical as temperature, for example. A clown loach simply will not get used to living in a Canadian's backyard pond, even if the 40F water is temperature-stable, but will do just fine in reasonably hard water.
 
Guess what? I worked for one of the largest importers in the US... they don't keep all the fish at the same ph or hardness... there is a soft water side of the facility, and a hard water side. Two different 5000 gallon sumps.

You can probably keep brackish fish in freshwater, oscars in 10 gallon tanks, SA and african cichlids together, BUT SHOULD YOU?

It's just stupid to keep these fish together. If you want them both, set up two different tanks where the fish can THRIVE, not just survive. Or just admit you are purposely keeping fish in conditions that aren't as good as they could be, and call it a day. If you're ok with that...
 
aclockworkorange;4696279; said:
Guess what? I worked for one of the largest importers in the US... they don't keep all the fish at the same ph or hardness... there is a soft water side of the facility, and a hard water side. Two different 5000 gallon sumps.

You can probably keep brackish fish in freshwater, oscars in 10 gallon tanks, SA and african cichlids together, BUT SHOULD YOU?

It's just stupid to keep these fish together. If you want them both, set up two different tanks where the fish can THRIVE, not just survive. Or just admit you are purposely keeping fish in conditions that aren't as good as they could be, and call it a day. If you're ok with that...


It was stated that MOST fish dist do... not all of them.
 
aclockworkorange;4697286; said:
How do you know? Ever worked in the industry?

I've never talked to a supplier that did have different water pH. I say only play the chemist if you can. If not, your fish will be fine without messing with pH. I keep discus at pH of 7, just like my clowns, turtles, angels, goldfish, gouramis and bala sharks.

It would be better if you can keep the pH at what the fish is used to, but that is very difficult even with buffers. A changing pH is more dangerous in my mind and several others than a constant one. That would be just my opinion.
 
komodo182;4697312; said:
I've never talked to a supplier that did have different water pH. I say only play the chemist if you can. If not, your fish will be fine without messing with pH. I keep discus at pH of 7, just like my clowns, turtles, angels, goldfish, gouramis and bala sharks.

It would be better if you can keep the pH at what the fish is used to, but that is very difficult even with buffers. A changing pH is more dangerous in my mind and several others than a constant one. That would be just my opinion.

So what do you do when you have 200 bags of fish come in from Singapore or Colombia at a 4.0 ph and baby soft water?
Suppliers will usually not tell you the truth when it comes to how they keep their fish. They also have their employees sign non-disclosure agreement about specific practices.
There are chemicals you can use to bring your ph down regardless of kh, btw. I just don't recommend them ata hobbyist level.
 
aclockworkorange;4697286; said:
How do you know? Ever worked in the industry?

No, I have never worked in the industry, but I know several people that do.

And not trying to start anything, but why are you being so rude?
 
aclockworkorange;4697405; said:
So what do you do when you have 200 bags of fish come in from Singapore or Colombia at a 4.0 ph and baby soft water?
Suppliers will usually not tell you the truth when it comes to how they keep their fish. They also have their employees sign non-disclosure agreement about specific practices.
There are chemicals you can use to bring your ph down regardless of kh, btw. I just don't recommend them ata hobbyist level.

Its around 6.5-7.2 when they arrive, be that direct from supplier or direct from Singapore. But I am sure everything is done differently right.

All I am saying is unless your fish are wild caught (and even most would be fine without worrying about water pH), I don't suggest playing the chemist.
Which you seem to agree with me on that one.

A changing variable is dangerous in my mind. So change it slow as possible and solve the problem.
But this is just my outlook. Everyone will have different experiences and opinions.
 
I knew this topic would crop up from time to time. I wrote the excerpt below two to three years ago why I do NOT advocate the combination of loaches and African cichlids together.

Rift Valley Cichlids
Rift Valley Cichlids and Loaches: Can they go along together?
There also comes the long been controversial debate about loaches and Rift Valley cichlids. Cichlids, as a whole, take their aggression to another level when you compare it to the loaches. They have various personalities thus making it impossible to predict how they will behave once they establish themselves in the aquarium. It is in the best interest if you are to keep cichlids and loaches together, that both species will not try to harass each other. Consider other variables, not just the individual personality. It has been a mistake of some people to think loaches are able to withstand the aggression and harassments inflicted by most cichlids, the same way that most cichlids can withstand the feisty nature of the loaches. While the cichlids with rather mellow personality do not usually pose a problem towards the loaches, these cichlids will eventually spawn as they mature giving more problems for the loaches thus subjecting the loaches to permanent damage from stress and physical injuries as they fail to cope up with the aggression issues of the cichlids. Loaches are sociable fish forming a hierarchy and even defending their boundaries. They do not appreciate being pushed around by other fish hence it is inadvisable to mix them with those kind of cichlids regardless.

Another issue that will be covered is the temperature. Take into consideration that Lake Malawi cichlids prefer temperature no higher than 78 degrees Celsius whereas several loaches that are often mixed with these cichlids prefer temperature higher than that. If the Lake Malawi cichlids are to be forced in such conditions, they will eventually suffocate. Never forget the Lake Malawi cichlids demand plenty of oxygen and as such their bodies cannot tolerate depleting oxygen levels.

There also comes the issue regarding the loaches being able to tolerate hard alkaline waters or not. It may or may not work. Plenty of loaches that are often suggested to be mixed with these cichlids hail from soft acidic waters which means that while the water parameters can be compromised as long as they “are acclimated properly”, they will still never thrive their best as their bodies are not designed to live in waters where conductivity is very high compared to the waters they are used to which has very low conductivity. Their osmoregulatory system is not designed for this situation and will only compromised their health as well as their lifespan.

Lastly, different dietary requirements are a problem. Which genus of cichlids are you planning to keep? Never forget again that plenty of Lake Malawi cichlids relish meaty foods so much despite being unsuitable in comparison to foods containing high fiber content that they eventually succumb to bloat and other digestion problems. In this case, you are advised not to attempt mixing loaches with these cichlids. Many botiine loaches generally prefer meaty foods as they had always done in the wild. Any attempt to feed the Lake Malawi cichlids occasionally is not without causing so much digestive upsets on their part that they eventually suffer and damage themselves permanently. Either way, you should not opt to keep both together. Anyone telling you that you can is not going to admit readily that he is wrong.
 
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