do discus really need a lower ph level?
- Thread starter m1nh0h
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At work we used to keep them in "soft water" with a lower pH, but they do much better at medium hard water at a constant 7.8. I wouldn't even recommend messing with pH unless you feel you have a good understanding of GH and KH.
I think the only time you ever need to alter water chemistry is when breeding discus, however I am not even sure if that is necessary.
I think the only time you ever need to alter water chemistry is when breeding discus, however I am not even sure if that is necessary.
Discus breeders learned a long time ago that while they got greater hatches in softer water, the juvenile fish grew at far greater rates when raised in hard water. Freshwater fish kept in hard water (>250 mg/l alkalinity) will spend less metabolic energy on osmoregulation than fish kept in soft water (< 100 mg/l alkalinity) - thus providing more metabolic energy for growth.
The following discus were raised in moderately hard water with a pH of 8.0
The following discus were raised in moderately hard water with a pH of 8.0
From what I've heard, it depends on what you're trying to achieve.
First I'd like to say, however, that it isn't matter of opinion. Fish have evolved within certain habitats and are therefore physiologically attuned to that environment, and this includes temperature, pH, kH, GH, etc. So yes, it would be preferable for a fish to be in its native pH... HOWEVER, except for a few very picky fish, most fish can adapt to other pHs, so long as they aren't extreme. Stability is also key, if pH is always changing, you'll stress the fish out.
However, if you're trying to breed discus, not just keep them in a nice display purposes simply for your own enjoyment, then there are benefits to keeping them in low pH, as pointed out by RD.
First I'd like to say, however, that it isn't matter of opinion. Fish have evolved within certain habitats and are therefore physiologically attuned to that environment, and this includes temperature, pH, kH, GH, etc. So yes, it would be preferable for a fish to be in its native pH... HOWEVER, except for a few very picky fish, most fish can adapt to other pHs, so long as they aren't extreme. Stability is also key, if pH is always changing, you'll stress the fish out.
However, if you're trying to breed discus, not just keep them in a nice display purposes simply for your own enjoyment, then there are benefits to keeping them in low pH, as pointed out by RD.
That may very well be true for "wild caught" specimens, but has little bearing for the vast majority of the designer discus strains that have been removed from the wild by several thousand generations.
Ironically, wild caught discus tend to be much hardier than the "designer strains", I find anyways. The Peruvian ones I used to import were kept in the "regular" fish system with a Ph of 7.6+.
I agree with simonl. I think domestics have been weakened by all the cross breeding. I have wilds in 7.6 ph and use tap water with prime. in ten months I have never treated them for anything. they are healthy and still growing. now breeding might be a different story.
Domestics have been weakened by selective breeding, and sloppy inbreeding. In today's designer fish world, many strains of tropical fish are bred for qualities other than disease resistance and some of these strains may be more susceptible to disease by their actual genetic make up. How many breeders of discus do you think focus on disease resistance when attempting to wow the world with their latest greatest new strain of fish?
The same could be said for many other species of fish that are in demand, where the latest new colors, patterns, fin length, or whatever are what is driving the market. Realistically, disease resistance is most likely at the bottom of some breeders priority list, if it's even considered at all. Nature has it's own way of taking care of genetically weak specimens, man will take those same fish & breed them for profit.
The same could be said for many other species of fish that are in demand, where the latest new colors, patterns, fin length, or whatever are what is driving the market. Realistically, disease resistance is most likely at the bottom of some breeders priority list, if it's even considered at all. Nature has it's own way of taking care of genetically weak specimens, man will take those same fish & breed them for profit.
Juxtaroberto;4979751; said:
pH isn't even that important in breeding discus. It's the hardness of the water that you have to look at. People breed discus in the 7's all the time -- the trick is to make sure the water is soft enough that the eggs hatch.
I raise all of my discus in a higher pH and they are fine. As it's been mentioned, most tank-bred fish are generations removed from wilds anyway and probably have never been in true soft, acidic water.