Fish In Cycle Assistance

[lilacamy931]

tarheel96 S skjl47

The tanks owned are previous in the past (my experiences). I have none to gain filter media to seed this one or know anyone who could lend from a healthy aquarium. Apologies that was the way I wrote it.

Taking readings now. Last night had done a 30% prior to posts. So its been roughly 24 hours:
Ammonia - has gone drastically high 4.00ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrates - 0ppm
PH - around the 7.4-7.6 mark

So I will do a water change to bring down to 2ppm going by above recommendation posts now.

Given ammonia does affect fish and these may/likely have affected them already - I would feel bad giving them to a LFS knowing someone else could end up with them and they don't live as long. Is that a bad way of thinking?

 

[skjl47]

So I will do a water change to bring down to 2ppm going by above recommendation posts now.

hello; On the one hand the more ammonia present the greater the nutrients for the bb to use and increase their population. On the other hand it is hard on the live fish still in the tank.

I would feel bad giving them to a LFS knowing someone else could end up with them and they don't live as long. Is that a bad way of thinking?

hello; Simple way around this is to "tell them" the conditions and let them make up their minds.
You made a mistake as most all of us do when learning. Keeping the fish in a tank with high ammonia after the discussion of this thread crosses a line from a mistake to something else.
This is your call. How cruel are you willing to be?

Hello; here is another thought. May not work in time tho. Keep the live fish and keep up with some WC to give them relief, then go buy a number of snails. Some fish shops will give away the more common snails. I suggest the Ramshorn snails. The snails likely will have some bb on their shells to help seed a tank. The snails will eat the excess food bits and help remove other organic stuff. The snails will generate some ammonia. The snails will reproduce and increase in numbers.

Check the water parameters over time and look for 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some number of nitrates. If you get to these numbers before the puffers arrive then you win. It is my understanding the puffers will eat the snails so another win.

 

[Drstrangelove]

tarheel96 S skjl47

Taking readings now. Last night had done a 30% prior to posts. So its been roughly 24 hours:
Ammonia - has gone drastically high 4.00ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrates - 0ppm
PH - around the 7.4-7.6 mark

1) In a 55 gallon, a reading of 4 ppm of ammonia is equivalent to 4 tsp of food. (Assuming dry food @ 35% protein.) That of course is a lot of food for 20+ fish of that size, but to get that ammonia level the math says you need that much food.

If that's what they are being fed, then the readings are spot on. If not, it's possible you have a faulty reading. A faulty reading could be from many causes (expired test, inaccurate test, misread reading, process mistakes, etc.), but if it's not truly 4 ppm (but let's say is drastically lower), then it would explain a lot.

2) Regardless of how much they are being fed, the readings of zero for nitrates indicates an uncycled tank, if we use those nitrate readings. So, one just have to decide how to move forward.

I empathize with you on having fish in the tank while cycling. It's a moral dilemma for those people who genuinely appreciate these are live animals, no doubt for many people. I have typically avoided it by not using fish, more because I don't want to deal with (throw away) the fish once I'm done. If you choose to do a fishless cycle, this will help.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/cycling-and-you.224559/

 

[FreshyFresh]

Just to add to the excellent advice from the more experienced hobbyists above;

Myself, having done fishless and fish-in cycles in the past, a fish-in cycle like the OP is doing is going to be "silent" and very gentle. Like I mentioned above, you're not going to see/measure ammonia or nitrite, nor do you really want to with fish in the tank IMO. All you'll see (eventually) is nitrates.

Once that happens, if you want to very gradually add fish, you should be good to go, verifying with your test kit of course.

Too bad you're not nearby! I keep extra media and filters in most of my filters and tanks for the purpose of "instant cycling"! You'd be good to go!

 

[lilacamy931]

I will contact my local LFS and discuss to see if there are options there. If that falls through might have to look at options to give away on a site such as gumtree.

Just to reassure I did go in with a fishin cycle however it was entirely my fault I got excited with the numbers. No intention of throw aways or such and mindlessly thought the volume of the tank could handle it.

The test kit is new and doesn't expire until 2022 so hopefully not that. i have test strips as well but know these are not as accurate and don't test for ammonia (they do show traces of nitrites/ates)

In relation to the 4tsp mentioned above - they certainly haven't had that much fed at all. 1-2 tsp at most. I have done a 25% water change and retesting just the ammonia now after this it is showing as 0.50ppm now.

Just a really big thank you to everyone on this thread willing to assist and give advice. I do appreciate it

FreshyFresh thank you for the kind thoughts, I might put out an appeal on local aquarist sites to see if anyone has a healthy tank could donate media or at least some squeezings.

EDIT: posted for mature media in uk forums as you never know

 

[lilacamy931]

Sorry haven't updated sooner (passed my driving test etc and work).

So fish are rehomed. At last reading ammonia at 1ppm. I will now need to read up on fishless cycle to remind myself.

Some biological start up has been added in tank and filter.

I understand whacking up the temperature can speed things along? Any recommendations on temperature and unsure if need to "feed tank" some flake food or not as conflicting info.

Someone around the local area might be able to provide a squeezing from an established tank as well -just waiting to hear back.

 

[skjl47]

read up on fishless cycle to remind myself.

Hello; Good idea.

Some biological start up has been added in tank and filter

unsure if need to "feed tank" some flake food or not as conflicting info.

Hello; Not sure what "biological startup" might be. If some solid material from an established tank then keep this in mind. The goal of a "cycled" tank is to have colonies of bb that "feed" on ammonia and these bb are alive. The bb will need some source of ammonia. That can be from a bottle of "pure" ammonia or from ammonia produced during the decay process. Some toss in a raw shrimp and let it rot in the tank.
If the "biological startup" is some sort of commercial stuff in a bottle then I cannot say for sure.

squeezing from an established tank as well -just waiting to hear back.

hello; Not sure how much such "squeezings" will help. The bb colonies in the established tank are in the form of a bio-film stuck onto surfaces. The squeezed stuff may only be crud trapped in a material with very little bb. Same goes for water from an older tank. Not much, if any, bb in theold water.

 

[lilacamy931]

Biological start up is something similar to tetra safestart (can't remember product name but they are aqua balls not a liquid). I need to see if I can source pure ammonia for easier measuring and just for now feeding some tropical flakes.

Some of the articles I have read have mentioned squeezings from mature tank if not able to take any media. I thought might as well what harm can it do?

The last reading was 1ppm ammonia, will see where it is at tomorrow.

 

[skjl47]

squeezings from mature tank if not able to take any media. I thought might as well what harm can it do?

Hello; Not convinced there will be much bb in the squeezings and you are putting "nasties" trapped in filter media into a new setup. If the old tank is disease and parasite free then you will have only add stuff I throw away to a new setup.
Good luck

 

[lilacamy931]

S skjl47 ah ok - fair dos! It's a shame I know no one in the area to use some filter media.

I think I will need the luck

Today I'm going to source pure ammonia if not the food/shrimp route

I've read getting live plants in pot (with the wool around the roots) could be a good source of live bacteria? Have you ever heard this?