flakes or pellets

[Mythic Figment]

I couldn't disagree more.

Most of the supposed disadvantages regarding flake food, and floating food are based on either old outdated info, or specifically pertain to fish with scrunched up deformed GI tracts such as many of the fancy goldfish that due to these physical characteristics are predisposed to gastrointestinal issues and/or buoyancy issues. This has nothing to do with SA or CA species of cichlids.

And please do not take that as a slam against fancy goldfish, I have kept my share over the years and I'm fairly well versed in their needs, and how to keep them sucessfully.


As a general rule floating pellets do not pose any type of gastrointestinal issue to SA or CA cichlids. Ditto to the "swelling" of flake food, which when happens is generally caused from excessive amounts of starch.

In general, flake foods are one of the easier foods for most cichlids to consume due to their lack of density. In other words it takes a LOT of flake food to bung up a fish. As an example compare 100 grams of flake food, to 100 grams of sinking pellets and you'll see what I mean. Flake foods are generally far more forgiving when it comes to overfeeding, and/or causing gastrointestinal issues in cichlids.


The form or type of food doesn't cause these problems, which is what the previous post was suggesting. If/when food triggers an internal issue it is generally either caused from overfeeding, or it is the actual raw ingredients that make up the food that caused the gastrointestinal issues in the fish. In the latter case it is typically from excessive amounts of poorly digestible ingredients. These types of ingredients, such as excessive amounts of terrrestrial grains (corn, soybeans, wheat, etc) can be found in all forms of foods, including sinking pellets, not just in flakes, and not just in floating pellets.


HTH

Very informative and well said. I simply meant the other points he made, like flake food leaching nutrients more rapidly and feeding multiple small meals per day by putting only enough food that would be eaten in a minute. The points about GI tracts and buoyancy has little or nothing to do with cichlids, so you would be entirely correct.


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[neutrino]

The form or type of food doesn't cause these problems, which is what the previous post was suggesting. If/when food triggers an internal issue it is generally either caused from overfeeding, or it is the actual raw ingredients that make up the food that caused the gastrointestinal issues in the fish. In the latter case it is typically from excessive amounts of poorly digestible ingredients. These types of ingredients, such as excessive amounts of terrrestrial grains (corn, soybeans, wheat, etc) can be found in all forms of foods, including sinking pellets, not just in flakes, and not just in floating pellets. HTH

Agree. Not pointing to or trying to argue with anyone in this thread, but in general, some people really get this wrong when they talk about pellets swelling up inside the fish or when some think a fish that lives in deep water can't afford to take in any air-- which is the other thing some people say.

Some people may see their pellets swell a bit in water and conclude it must be the air in the pellets, but imo/ime it's not so much how much air as how much starch. If you've ever cooked rice or oatmeal or pasta you can see this. So it's not so much about floating or sinking as it is the ingredients, meaning some pellets will swell very little or some more than others, whether floating or sinking. I've checked this and some (floating) pellets swell very little compared to others. Secondly, since when can't fish (or animals in general) handle their stomachs expanding to any degree? It's funny how I've seen the same people that will let their fish gorge themselves on brine shrimp or worms or frozen fish food or market shrimp, etc. think they have to soak their pellets, squeeze out the air, not feed any floating foods, etc.

As for deep water fish not being able to ingest air, what do you think happens when they eat other fish, including their swim bladders? Some of the same people who think it's a bad thing to let their fish feed at the surface, in case they gulp some air, think nothing of taking them out of the water to strip eggs or fry or measure them, etc.

I don't know about certain man made fish with odd shapes and unnaturally configured guts and intestines, maybe they need special care, but otherwise I've never seen where floating vs sinking foods makes a difference to fish digestion. It's more about what's in the food and not overfeeding than anything else ime. As far as flakes vs. pellets for larger fish, sure it's possible to feed them flakes, just takes a lot more of them for a large fish compared to small fish, so pellets are more efficient imo.

 

[joe jaskot]

When a fish eats a dry pellet, where does the moisture to dissolve it come from? Most likely from inside the fish. I've kept all sizes of fish (biggest was 27"), and they all ate flake food. Not a big fan of pellet food.

 

[joe jaskot]

Due to the design & shape of flakes, pellets are generally more nutrient dense, and more stable in water. (as in less nutrient leaching compared to flakes) This is not my opinion, but a fact that has been stated by some of the leading researchers in aquatic nutrition. Also flakes typically have a higher percentage of binding agents than pellets, which equates to more carbs/starch than pellets made by the same manufacturer.

So while one can certainly feed their large 10+ inch fish flake food, it certainly isn't an overly efficient way to go about getting optimum nutrient levels to ones fish.

Explain to me how if the same ingredients are used by a manufacturer to make pellets and flakes, how are the pellets better for your fish? I am sure if the food you promote came in a flake form you would be singing a different tune.

 

[Aquanero]

Joe as an FYI NLS (if that's what you are refing to) does come in flake also.

So as not to let this thread turn sour, I don't mind a healthy discussion but I don't want it to get too heated. These food threads have a habit of doing that from time to time.

 

[joe jaskot]

Joe as an FYI NLS (if that's what you are refing to) does come in flake also.

So as not to let this thread turn sour, I don't mind a healthy discussion but I don't want it to get too heated. These food threads have a habit of doing that from time to time.

I don't care what brand of food people use. I just don't see how someone can say that a fish can't thrive on flake food. From the NLS website:

Pablo

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:40 AM
Although we make flake food, I do not recommend feeding flake food to larger fish due insufficient food intake. It's like popcorn full of air, yet, it is what majority of the hobbylists use. This is why on our flake food label, we have a caution statement warning people: "Although flake food is ok for small fish, it will not produce vigorous growth and health for lager fish due insufficient food intake". You are always better off using pelletized food, it is more sustantial.


I've bred many large cichlids without feeding pellets. That is all I am trying to say.

 

[RD.]

LOL, yep NLS also comes in flake form, and the manufacturer uses the same ingredients and the same basic recipe as he does to make his pellets.

FYI - I no longer have a vested interest in the fish food biz, and the only thing that I have ever promoted is sound husbandry practices & a healthy dose of common sense. There is a reason why commercial aquaculture typically does not feed flake food. Almost all large scale commercial fish farms world-wide feed pellet food because they learned a long time ago that pellets are a more efficient manner to get the optimum levels of nutrients to their fish - for the exact reasons that I stated previously, pellets are more stable in water, and they are more nutrient dense.

When a fish eats a dry pellet, where does the moisture to dissolve it come from?

From the gastric acids & enzymes that all fish naturally produce to break down their food. The same gastric acids & enzymes that are powerful enough to dissolve a fishermans steel hook.

 

[RD.]

Joe - no one here said that it can't be done. My wife has been driving for over 30 years, that doesn't make her a great driver.

 

[4D3]

I am also interested in this...my fish seem to eat pellets as a last resort.

I give them 50:50 tetracolor floating pellets, and tetracolor granules.

They really prefer tetracolor granules.

Is there anything wrong with feeding then the tetracolor granules over the pellets?

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[lennym]

Pellets all the way


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