Help! Figure 8 puffer pacing and not eating
- Thread starter piffpuffer
- Start date
Usually table salt is what’s used for treating ich. That’s really more of a price concern though (table salt is a lot cheaper than reef salt). Given that the fish needs brackish long term anyway, you can use the same salt you would use to make the brackish tank. The goal is to raise the osmotic pressure to a point where the ich dies, regardless of what kind of salt.
I got some issues with my cycling (fishless). This is day 9 and my nitrite & nitrates levels are still consistently so high. Ammonia started going down about 4-5 days ago (Started at 5ppm dosage), but my nitrite levels are always consistent at 5 to 6, and nitrates at 60 to 80.
yesterday's parameters:
Amm: 1ppm (dosed back to 2 - 3ppm)
Nitrite: 5
Nitrate: 80
So today I did a 70% WC and since the ammonia is cycling better, I added 2 java fern & 2 java moss to help with the nitrate levels. Made sure not to clear any biofilm on the decorations and glass, there's definitely a lot though.
Before water change:
Amm: 1.5ppm
Nitrite: 7
Nitrate: 80, but the colour shade looks deeper, if I had to guess, maybe even 90
pH: 8.5 (getting something from LFS to lower it to 7 - 7.5 tomorrow)
1 hour after water change + plants. New water was dechlorinated with prime.
Amm: ~0.7ppm
Nitrite: 3
Nitrate: between 40 - 50
SG: 1.0045
~2 hours after
Nightly cycling parameter check
Amm: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 4
Nitrate: 60
Everything I've read online is so conflicting, I read to not dose the ammonia until the nitrates have dissipated a bit so i won't be stuck in a nitrate cycle. There was another suggestion to add prime to the tank again, but I haven't done that, I fear it'll disrupt the cycle too much. What else can I do?
yesterday's parameters:
Amm: 1ppm (dosed back to 2 - 3ppm)
Nitrite: 5
Nitrate: 80
So today I did a 70% WC and since the ammonia is cycling better, I added 2 java fern & 2 java moss to help with the nitrate levels. Made sure not to clear any biofilm on the decorations and glass, there's definitely a lot though.
Before water change:
Amm: 1.5ppm
Nitrite: 7
Nitrate: 80, but the colour shade looks deeper, if I had to guess, maybe even 90
pH: 8.5 (getting something from LFS to lower it to 7 - 7.5 tomorrow)
1 hour after water change + plants. New water was dechlorinated with prime.
Amm: ~0.7ppm
Nitrite: 3
Nitrate: between 40 - 50
SG: 1.0045
~2 hours after
Nightly cycling parameter check
Amm: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 4
Nitrate: 60
Everything I've read online is so conflicting, I read to not dose the ammonia until the nitrates have dissipated a bit so i won't be stuck in a nitrate cycle. There was another suggestion to add prime to the tank again, but I haven't done that, I fear it'll disrupt the cycle too much. What else can I do?
Sorry to get to this late - are you still having issues?
I figured I’ll ask - what test kit are you using? Some can just be prone to misreads.
For plants to have any major effect, you need a lot of them.
Nice to see ammonia getting down, but that nitrate just seems really high to me.
Best thing to do is more water changes imo - by pulling out the nitrate it forces the reaction to continue forward.
I figured I’ll ask - what test kit are you using? Some can just be prone to misreads.
For plants to have any major effect, you need a lot of them.
Nice to see ammonia getting down, but that nitrate just seems really high to me.
Best thing to do is more water changes imo - by pulling out the nitrate it forces the reaction to continue forward.
Unfortunately, yes. Aquarium Lab Multi Test Ki by NT Labs. Do you think it being brackish water would affect the results? It's tough to find a saltwater test kit where i am.
My ammonia went down and has been staying at 0.2ppm for 2 days now, not noticing changes there. Still haven't been dosing, pH is now at 7.5.
Nitrates went up from 4 (after WC) to now 6 - 7.
My plants are quite small, since my tank is much wider than it is tall, so I can't accommodate huge plants to leave good swimming space for the puff. So, yeah i dont think the plants would help that much. But my main focus now is the nitrite and amm. I read that API tests can get false ammonia readings so I just did a test on the treated water for WCs and no false readings there.
I'm thinking I have to start redosing the ammonia once i do frequent WCs? To maybe about 1ppm to not get huge nitrite and nitrate spikes again?
My ammonia went down and has been staying at 0.2ppm for 2 days now, not noticing changes there. Still haven't been dosing, pH is now at 7.5.
Nitrates went up from 4 (after WC) to now 6 - 7.
My plants are quite small, since my tank is much wider than it is tall, so I can't accommodate huge plants to leave good swimming space for the puff. So, yeah i dont think the plants would help that much. But my main focus now is the nitrite and amm. I read that API tests can get false ammonia readings so I just did a test on the treated water for WCs and no false readings there.
I'm thinking I have to start redosing the ammonia once i do frequent WCs? To maybe about 1ppm to not get huge nitrite and nitrate spikes again?
Those nitrate readings are very high considering there’s no fish. Do you know how much ammonia you’ve added as that should be the sole source of nitrate in a fish less cycle. I’d try adding some snails or something as a source of ammonia now as the bacteria seem to be relatively established. The issue with dosing ammonia is the inconsistent concentrations, when it’s added. The bacteria population increases to meet the available ammonia and then starts to die off as it’s depleted. Better to have a more consistent supply of ammonia through either something living or adding ammonia little and often. This better simulates the constant supply of ammonia once you’ve got fish in there.
The salt level is still pretty low - I wouldn’t expect a huge effect (though I could be wrong). TBH I should check to see how well fw kits work in sw and vice versa. In salt the ammonia definitely gets false readings (it reads for toxic ammonia and non-toxic ammonium if I remember right). I’m pretty sure the nitrite and nitrate are decent (just hard to get an exact number).
I wouldn’t be dosing any more ammonia - the cycle is definitely going, there’s just a lot of nutrients.
I wouldn’t be dosing any more ammonia - the cycle is definitely going, there’s just a lot of nutrients.
I'll just do a WCs then 
Thank you both! I got some trumpet snails from my LFS when they gave me a bag of bladder snails, i might put them in after the WC. I've read they're good for the sand as well since they burrow a lot. My concern is that when he eventually moves over, he'll go crazy with overeating snails, but I wonder if he might leave them alone because they're a bit big for my puff to eat and the last time I tried to give him a small trumpet snail, he couldn't bite through the shell. Have you had any experience with bigger snails/tough shelled snails living with puffs? almost everything I've read, puff destroy everything they live with! I could remove the snails before putting the puff in but i suspect i'll miss some buried in the sand or some eggs.
Thank you both! I got some trumpet snails from my LFS when they gave me a bag of bladder snails, i might put them in after the WC. I've read they're good for the sand as well since they burrow a lot. My concern is that when he eventually moves over, he'll go crazy with overeating snails, but I wonder if he might leave them alone because they're a bit big for my puff to eat and the last time I tried to give him a small trumpet snail, he couldn't bite through the shell. Have you had any experience with bigger snails/tough shelled snails living with puffs? almost everything I've read, puff destroy everything they live with! I could remove the snails before putting the puff in but i suspect i'll miss some buried in the sand or some eggs.
Malaysian trumpets are generally tougher for smaller guys to eat due to the hard shells. Bladder snails are easy for even the tiniest puffers though.
While the fish is small I’d expect it not to go after the larger snails too much but that’s all subject to change with size.
I haven’t ever tried larger snails with my puffers. It just never felt worth the risk and would likely be torture for the snail.
I don’t know what the salt tolerance of these species are, so keep in mind that they may die due to the salinity.
While the fish is small I’d expect it not to go after the larger snails too much but that’s all subject to change with size.
I haven’t ever tried larger snails with my puffers. It just never felt worth the risk and would likely be torture for the snail.
I don’t know what the salt tolerance of these species are, so keep in mind that they may die due to the salinity.
Turns out they can tolerate up to 1.0226 SG, hardy little guys! I decided to put in two MTS thats on the larger size, and they immediately burrowed and disappeared in the sand.
I did some research on that, and again, it's mixed experiences, some say puffers learn quickly how hard their shells, some say the snails never get caught since they bury in the sand and only come out at night for clean up, and another said their puff learned how to nip at their feet.
I figured I'd just remove them when the puff goes in, shouldn't be too hard since I can see where the sand has been dug (it's quite cute actually). Also because I read their tough shells could chip or break puffs' teeth and thats not a risk im willing to take, especially since my puff is still a juv. I might just move them to a new smaller tank and maybe keep them with some shrimp i want to breed, Neocardina can have sand as substrate too.
Water update after 75% WC
Amm - looks like 0.1
Nitrite - 2 (reduced from 8/9)
Didn't bother testing nitrates
After a couple hours, Nitrites went up to 3 - 4, Amm stayed the same
Will continue with WCs, thanks for the advice!
I did some research on that, and again, it's mixed experiences, some say puffers learn quickly how hard their shells, some say the snails never get caught since they bury in the sand and only come out at night for clean up, and another said their puff learned how to nip at their feet.
I figured I'd just remove them when the puff goes in, shouldn't be too hard since I can see where the sand has been dug (it's quite cute actually). Also because I read their tough shells could chip or break puffs' teeth and thats not a risk im willing to take, especially since my puff is still a juv. I might just move them to a new smaller tank and maybe keep them with some shrimp i want to breed, Neocardina can have sand as substrate too.
Water update after 75% WC
Amm - looks like 0.1
Nitrite - 2 (reduced from 8/9)
Didn't bother testing nitrates
After a couple hours, Nitrites went up to 3 - 4, Amm stayed the same
Will continue with WCs, thanks for the advice!
