Herichthys cyanoguttatus vs. carpintis

[auratum]

OK experts - I am looking for a comparison from those that know. I have kept cyanoguttatus in the past, but currently have neither and am interested in getting one or the other. All I have so far are my own opinions based on pictures, so I am looking for input from those who have kept both.

Color: Based on the common names and pictures, it is apparent that cyanoguttatus has spotting that is more blue and carpintis has spotting that is more green - correct? Is this always true or does this depend on the strain (collection location)? The cyano's spots seem almost white at times but this may be just washing out from the flash used in taking the pics?

Size of Spotting: My impression from most of the pictures I have seen is that carpintis has much larger spots - is this always the case or does this depend on the strain or individual fish? I really like the appearance of the larger spots - the bigger the spotting the better!

Color & Spotting Variation: Based on the pictures alone - it seems like carpintis is more variable in overall appearance - is this true? Is there anywhere to get a decent comparison between the different collection locations of the carpintis (Escondito, Lahillah, Vontehillo, are the others?)? Seems like cyano's are sold as wild caught or from a particular location - is there variation through-out their range?

Size of fish: I have seen cyano's listed as getting slightly larger than carpintis - does this seem true in the aquarium?

Behavior: My impression is that both are very aggressive and need large tanks to house a breeding pair or very large if you have any interest in keeping with other species of similar aggression. Correct?

Growth Rate: Do they grow similarly fast?

Body Shape: They seem similar - are there any obvious differences in body shape?

Thanks for any help you can offer on this!
Patrick

 

[flowerpower]

As far as color, they are blue from most angles and green from some angles. In many photos carpintis look green but this is a misrepresentation IMO.
Like with most fish, collection locale does come into play when it comes to color and pattern differences between isolated populations of a given species.
Carpintis tend to have larger spots than cyanoguttatus, however, I think cyanos have nicer spawning colors and are generally more robust fish.
If It's large spots that you like, then the obvious choice would be a carpintis from vontehillo or escondido. They both have large spots with a worming pattern around the mouth. Lahilla and chariel look similar to me in that they have slightly smaller spots and lack the worming around the face. I have a group from vontehillo with huge, densely packed blue spots. The dominant male is a sight to behold. You can find pictures of him here http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347060&page=2

 

[auratum]

Flowerpower.

Wow - sweet vontehillo! Is this color pattern pretty consistent with this strain or is this an exceptional specimen?

Thanks for the quick response!
Patrick

 

[freebyrd]

I had two carpintis from the same batch of fry one was more green and the other is a deep turquoise blue I was amazed at the different colors both were out standing. I still have the turquoise one he is about 4"+ the other mysteriously died no1 beat him up so I'm not sure I have pics ill try to find them. I also have a cyano I didn't know which I wanted so I got both til I could decide. Carpintis won me over they are super impressive

 

[FishingOut]

You seem to have all your facts straight.
Cyanos can look white. Their color can sometimes be a ghostly color blue. Its very attractive. A very nice powder blue and the spots are more sutle than a carpintis.
The main difference is the layout of the spangles in the 2 species. Cyano's have dots, while Carpintis have blotches. Cyanos are bulkier, and In my opinion tougher fish. Both species will turn 3/4 black and 1/4 white while breeding or just showing off.
Its usually advised to get these fish from a respectable breeder because their are alot of hybrids in the trade.
These fish are extremely aggressive. Cyano being a bit more aggressive from my experiences. Comparable to a Red Devil id say. I wouldnt try community setting in anything under a 150gal. Anything smaller would probably be trouble.

 

[auratum]

Thanks for the input guys! Anyone else with experience?

 

[VRWC]

Ive had cyanos & all commonly available variants of carpintis and out of all carpintis, the only green ones were escondido.

lahillas- almost black under the spangles, big blue spangles (my fave of all variants)

chairel - golder, more metallic than any others...blue and teal, maybe the green some say they see.

vontehillo - brighter blue than any other variant, possibly the most aggressive of the carpintis

escondido - more green & worming throughout than any others...probably more social than any others and not scared of movement outside the tank as much as others


NONE that I had were anywhere near the aggression level of Red Devils...more like severums. They were peacekeepers and could hold their own, but never started fights or harassed anyone...and Ive kept them with all parachromis, festae, midas, trimacs, convicts, HRPs & more. They lived well with all and never got pushed around. Biggest carpintis Ive had was 8 or so inches...female.

Cyanos Ive had were a lot more aggressive, grew bigger and were a little more outgoing than carpintis.

Youre correct on spotting, all but 1 or 2 of the rarer carpintis (Rio Salto & another one an MFK member has...its goldish in color and I believe is from just across the TX border) have larger dots than cyanos.

Both grow about 1/2"-1" a month until around 7-8" if fed well and given weekly large water changes. Ive had them both in 75s, 125 & 265 with no problems with any tankmates..never even trying to eat/ kill tetras.

Id say the aggression issue is not true to the majority of them. Sure there are some that are overly aggressive, but for the most part I see them both in community tanks more often than not and that has been my experience.

 

[auratum]

Thanks VRWC! Great info!

 

[freebyrd]

Yes excellent info. These fish are one of my favorite fish.

This is my more teal one

And the more green here

And the cyano

 

[auratum]

Thanks for posting the pics freebyrd!

VRWC - do you have any pics of the different strains you have raised that you would be willing to post, or threads you could link where you've posted photos already?

Thanks!
Patrick