How accurate is this guy with the nitrate info
- Thread starter jason longboard
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He's absolutely spot on. He's referring to "nitrate creep", quite a common term in the hobby.
Like he said, unless you are doing 100% water changes you are leaving an amount of nitrate in the tank every time you do a partial water change.
As an example, if you have 20ppm nitrate on the day of your water change, and you change out 50% of your water, you're still left with 10% nitrate after your water change. Unchecked, this can build up over many weeks/months.
On the other hand if you were to do a 100% water change, then you are back down to 0ppm, unless you are unlucky enough to have nitrate in your tap water of course!
Those of us who keep on top of our water changes, and maybe throw the odd bigger than usual water change into their regime once in a while, and have lightly stocked tanks, feed sparingly, and maybe have plants too, are unlikely to have much of a problem with nitrate creep.
Those who just do wimpy water changes as and when it suits them, have heavily stocked unplanted tanks, and throw food in by the bucket load, will have it a lot worse.
But yeah, nitrate creep can be one of those things than can, well, creep right up on you!
Like he said, unless you are doing 100% water changes you are leaving an amount of nitrate in the tank every time you do a partial water change.
As an example, if you have 20ppm nitrate on the day of your water change, and you change out 50% of your water, you're still left with 10% nitrate after your water change. Unchecked, this can build up over many weeks/months.
On the other hand if you were to do a 100% water change, then you are back down to 0ppm, unless you are unlucky enough to have nitrate in your tap water of course!
Those of us who keep on top of our water changes, and maybe throw the odd bigger than usual water change into their regime once in a while, and have lightly stocked tanks, feed sparingly, and maybe have plants too, are unlikely to have much of a problem with nitrate creep.
Those who just do wimpy water changes as and when it suits them, have heavily stocked unplanted tanks, and throw food in by the bucket load, will have it a lot worse.
But yeah, nitrate creep can be one of those things than can, well, creep right up on you!
Just imagine the creep you would get in your bathroom, if you only did a partial flush each time that you dropped off some bodily waste. Over a week, month, longer? This is where the old Army Corps of Engineers dictum of "The Solution to Pollution is Dilution" applies.
edited to add: I did not watch video
edited to add: I did not watch video
I consider any nitrate level beyonnd 5 ppm as too much, and warrant a water change..
I collect my own cichlids in nature, and test for nitrate, there, and find in nature nitrates are undetectable.
This tells me all I really need to know.
I collect my own cichlids in nature, and test for nitrate, there, and find in nature nitrates are undetectable.
This tells me all I really need to know.
He's exactly right on the concept, documented elsewhere in articles on the subject, though (as I believe he mentions) each tank is different and numbers will vary. Personally, I generally do roughly 80% water changes (frequency depends on the tank) with a near 100% change every so often by continuing to siphon while I refill the tank-- I've lived in places where this might cause issues (and did once because of a problem with the town's water treatment), but not here or my previous house, both with well water.
The same guy also did an experiment and found that Seachem Matrix did reduce nitrates in his tanks-- I've seen people get varying results on this, but yes it does work for some.
The same guy also did an experiment and found that Seachem Matrix did reduce nitrates in his tanks-- I've seen people get varying results on this, but yes it does work for some.
Seachem matrix is a fancy and expensive way to buy pumice.
I have long used pumice in my sumps. I find it does reduce nitrates, but you need an awful lot of it to make much difference.
My sumps are quite large, about a third of the volume of the main tanks, with many baffles, a bit of foam at the start, and loads of pumice. It reduces it, but does not eliminate it.
In combination with a constant drip - equating to about 10% of the tank volume per day - it keeps my nitrates negligible.
I'm totally guilty of not testing my water i haven't tested in over 5 years i am very lightly stocked and feed very lightly but i do 3 80% WC a week i actually had a post about getting tired of doing 3 WC a week.
Its a 125 with a FX6 a AC 110 Extra large Sponge filter and a 10in Midas and 8in Festae the tank has been up and running over 8 years
Its a 125 with a FX6 a AC 110 Extra large Sponge filter and a 10in Midas and 8in Festae the tank has been up and running over 8 years
This ^^^^ right here folks, aside from a drip system, is the best sure fire way of keeping nitrate creep at bay.
Keep up the good work T troublesum !
I love it when an internet expert twigs onto an idea and presents it as though he has personally and single-handedly discovered a Unified Field Theory, a guaranteed path to world peace and a cure for the common cold all rolled into one. I can't believe that
RD.
didn't watch this fountain of Hidden Truth. An opportunity for enlightenment like this doesn't come along every day.
Well, okay, I guess such a moment comes along at least a few times every day on the internet, but...oh, never mind...
Now, at risk of upsetting this revolutionary applecart, let's take a look at this. I'm no mathematician; if I were I could probably boil this down to a simple equation, but I'm just gonna look at this from the Neanderthal perspective.
Let's say, for the sake of simplicity, that you do a 50% water change every week. Let's also assume that your bioload creates a completely stable and consistent amount of ammonia each week which equates to 10ppm of nitrate in your cycled tank. Just take a pen and paper and quickly scratch down some numbers; you will see that in this case the amount of nitrate remaining after your 50% water change will increase by a smaller and smaller amount each week. After your 10th weekly water change, you will have reached an equilibrium, at which point your tank will have 20ppm before the next change.
You will then remove half...bringing you down to 10ppm...and then your fish over the next week will produce another 10ppm, bringing you back up to 20 at the end of that week. You then take out another 50%...i.e. 10ppm...bringing you back down once again to a post-change level of 10ppm. And there you will stay ad infinitum, with your water creeping up to a level that is twice what your fish produce within a week, after which you will knock that down by half only to have the dang fish eating and pooping and respiring to bring you back up to the same level you were at the previous week...which is the same level you will be at every single week going forward.
The actual numbers here will vary depending upon how much your fish actually produce per week, and also upon what percentage you change and how often, but the same thing will hold true. You will reach an equilibrium point...not in years or months, but often within just a few weeks...and the biggest question will be what your feelings are regarding nitrate toxicity. Our hero in the video seems to think that 40ppm might be the time to start getting nervous, while others might choose higher or lower levels. I'm not even going to open that particular can of worms.
Another variable factor is the bioload in your tank...which is almost never completely stable and consistent. Fish grow...they die...they are replaced...they breed...feeding levels change slightly...plants grow and die and are pruned, changing the amount of nutrients which they utilize...water changes may be slightly inconsistent in their timing and/or their volume.
Nitrate creep is not something that continues upwards forever. It reaches a plateau level, at which it ceases to rise...if nothing else changes. But most changes conspire to increase the bioload, which then moves that plateau level higher and higher, eventually into dangerous levels. The greater the volume of your water changes, the longer it takes to plateau, but it will still do so. Our buddy in the video got something right; an occasional extra water change will help slow this accumulation.
Remember: common wisdom notwithstanding, there is no such thing as "old tank syndrome". The actual problem is old water syndrome, and the solution is simple; get rid of the old water and replace it with new water...a lot.
RD.
didn't watch this fountain of Hidden Truth. An opportunity for enlightenment like this doesn't come along every day.Well, okay, I guess such a moment comes along at least a few times every day on the internet, but...oh, never mind...
Now, at risk of upsetting this revolutionary applecart, let's take a look at this. I'm no mathematician; if I were I could probably boil this down to a simple equation, but I'm just gonna look at this from the Neanderthal perspective.
Let's say, for the sake of simplicity, that you do a 50% water change every week. Let's also assume that your bioload creates a completely stable and consistent amount of ammonia each week which equates to 10ppm of nitrate in your cycled tank. Just take a pen and paper and quickly scratch down some numbers; you will see that in this case the amount of nitrate remaining after your 50% water change will increase by a smaller and smaller amount each week. After your 10th weekly water change, you will have reached an equilibrium, at which point your tank will have 20ppm before the next change.
You will then remove half...bringing you down to 10ppm...and then your fish over the next week will produce another 10ppm, bringing you back up to 20 at the end of that week. You then take out another 50%...i.e. 10ppm...bringing you back down once again to a post-change level of 10ppm. And there you will stay ad infinitum, with your water creeping up to a level that is twice what your fish produce within a week, after which you will knock that down by half only to have the dang fish eating and pooping and respiring to bring you back up to the same level you were at the previous week...which is the same level you will be at every single week going forward.
The actual numbers here will vary depending upon how much your fish actually produce per week, and also upon what percentage you change and how often, but the same thing will hold true. You will reach an equilibrium point...not in years or months, but often within just a few weeks...and the biggest question will be what your feelings are regarding nitrate toxicity. Our hero in the video seems to think that 40ppm might be the time to start getting nervous, while others might choose higher or lower levels. I'm not even going to open that particular can of worms.
Another variable factor is the bioload in your tank...which is almost never completely stable and consistent. Fish grow...they die...they are replaced...they breed...feeding levels change slightly...plants grow and die and are pruned, changing the amount of nutrients which they utilize...water changes may be slightly inconsistent in their timing and/or their volume.
Nitrate creep is not something that continues upwards forever. It reaches a plateau level, at which it ceases to rise...if nothing else changes. But most changes conspire to increase the bioload, which then moves that plateau level higher and higher, eventually into dangerous levels. The greater the volume of your water changes, the longer it takes to plateau, but it will still do so. Our buddy in the video got something right; an occasional extra water change will help slow this accumulation.
Remember: common wisdom notwithstanding, there is no such thing as "old tank syndrome". The actual problem is old water syndrome, and the solution is simple; get rid of the old water and replace it with new water...a lot.
The beauty of posting here long enough, is eventually everything comes full circle and I can just copy/paste my comments from previous discussions. lol
IMO nitrate toxicity is a misnomer. But in a glass box, when one sees higher nitrate levels, they typically also see higher levels of overall pollution, including dissolved organic compounds, along with elevated levels of bacteria. The latter is what weakens the fishes immune system, often triggering health issues, not the nitrates. I haven't tested my tanks for nitrates in decades, no need to - I change out 80-90% of my tank water weekly, feed lightly, and stock sparingly.
IMO nitrate toxicity is a misnomer. But in a glass box, when one sees higher nitrate levels, they typically also see higher levels of overall pollution, including dissolved organic compounds, along with elevated levels of bacteria. The latter is what weakens the fishes immune system, often triggering health issues, not the nitrates. I haven't tested my tanks for nitrates in decades, no need to - I change out 80-90% of my tank water weekly, feed lightly, and stock sparingly.
