You'll have to wait and see but if the tank was just setup, I'd get a functioning filter from another tank on there ASAP to prevent further stress to the fish.
I Forgot Dechlorinator! HELP!
- Thread starter CatfishLuver
- Start date
You are correct. Many fishkeepers freak out when they find out they forgot to dechlorinate the water in their tanks. It won't hurt the biological filtration(Unless theres extremely high levels of it), but it may stress fish(possibly kill them if in high enough concentrations, but regular city tap water rarely has the amount of chlorine/chloramines in the tap to kill fish) and kill invertebrates. I rinse my canisters out with 100% tap water, forget that non sense of washing it with tank water. Never had a mini cycle of any kind.
The fish if ok now will be fine. As was said not enough chloramine or chlorine in tap water if mixed will older water to do any damage. I too have been rinsing my media in cold tap water and have for years without any ill effects. Now I did an experiment and rinsed in warm to hot water and I did experiance a mini cycle. Also I agree that rinsing in old tank water is non sense.
Both chlorine &/or chloramine can cause long term damage & even death to fish, in some cases even at low levels, especially young fish which are typically the most sensitive to these substances. Free chlorine can cause acute necrosis of gill tissue in fish, the younger the fish the worse it can be. Chlorine also has the potential to wipe out most/all of the bio bacteria in your system. In short chlorine is an oxidizer, that can burn a fishes gills & kill cell tissue, sometimes even at low levels.
The amount of chlorine and or chloramine can vary greatly from one municipality to another, as well as from one tap to another, and can also vary greatly throughout the season. There is no way that anyone on a public forum can possibly attempt to tell you what a "safe" amount is in your case unless they have the specs on your local tap water at your user end. Water temp, pH values, etc can also determine how 'safe' certain levels of known toxic substances can be on fish.
The worst part was/is that your new set up was void of organics which could have helped greatly reduce any potential harm to your fish, or at least kept the exposure time much lower. According to Edward Noga, a professor at NC State that is considered an expert in the disease & health of fish, chlorine levels as low as 0.10 mg/l (which is common in many tap water levels) can be accutely fatal in aquaria that has low levels of organics. (as in a new set up) Others have found residual chlorine levels as low as 0.05 mg/l to be toxic to certain species of fish.
There has been a TON of work done in this area over the past few decades, by a number of researchers, such as Tompkins & Tsai (1976) for anyone that is interested in understanding just how toxic both chlorine & chloramine can be in a closed system that contains fish.
The fact that your fish haven't died is positive, but that in no way means that the exposure hasn't caused damage to your fish.
And to Water & Alan, I have personally seen a number of cases where total die off of bio-bacteria as well as fish, was caused by a large water change, where the owner forgot to add dechlorinator. I have also seen total (or at least a massive amount) of BB killed off by rinsing filter media in tap water. Enough to cause a major ammonia spike in a semi established system.
In my non-expert opinion, both of you are most likely killing a certain amount of BB every time that you rinse your media in your tap water. In your cases it may not be enough to throw your system into a mini-cycle, but both chlorine & chloramine have the potential to totally wipe out the bacteria in an aquarium. Again, this will be dependant on numerous factors, and can vary greatly from one hobbyists situation to another, and what may be safe for the two of you, could prove to be a disaster for the next person a few cities or towns over.
With my local tap water (2 mg/l chloramine) I rinse my media in a bucket of clean, dechlorinated water. Takes a bit more time than simply rinsing under the tap, but ensures that I am not killing off one of the most important parts of my closed system.
Unfortunately the LC50 (survival time) of most tropical species of fish placed under various levels of chlorine/chloramine has yet to be established, but the bottom line is both substances are highly toxic to most aquatic organisms.
From the EPA ....
http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/s_chlori.txt
Best course of action to reduce stress from exposure to chlorine/chloramine is add a small amount of sodium chloride (salt) which will help reduce osmoregulatory stress, increase aeration (the more the better), and reduce the temp of the tank a few degrees to also improve dissolved oxygen levels.
HTH
LOL, Water if you have some research to share please feel free to do so.
I just hate to see one person comparing their local water conditions, and the potential toxicity (or lack thereof) to someone elses that may be dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances. Way too many factors involved.
I just hate to see one person comparing their local water conditions, and the potential toxicity (or lack thereof) to someone elses that may be dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances. Way too many factors involved.
Iam not recomending anyone do it just agreeing with water. Michigan's water supply is from the Detriot river and supposedly the best fresh water system in the world. I'am only stating my experiances as I have been cleaning my media in tap water (COLD) for about 40 years with no ill effects. Some parts of the country I would not even drink their tap water. My doctor told me and my wife not to waste money on bottled water as our tap water is just as good here.
Alan, I grew up a stones through from the shoreline of where the Detroit River flows into Lake St. Clair, and at that time (late 60's early 70's) the water conditions were so bad the F&W used to post "Warning" signs in regards to fisherman not eating the fish due to high mercury levels & other heavy metals. The water from that system is like monkey piss compared to the glacial fed mountain river where my current tap water is sourced from. lol
Having said that, the bottom line is both chlorine & chloramine are highly toxic to fish & most other aquatic organisms, and how toxic it is or isn't is based on a LOT of different factors. What has worked for you could turn out to be a nightmare for the next person, fish or otherwise.
Having said that, the bottom line is both chlorine & chloramine are highly toxic to fish & most other aquatic organisms, and how toxic it is or isn't is based on a LOT of different factors. What has worked for you could turn out to be a nightmare for the next person, fish or otherwise.
Thank you very much for the info. The fish are doing fine now, they are eating and have no signs of stress or ammonia burn. So I think they will be fine and also my parameters are normal. I think there are worse things that could of happened, and I am glad they didn't. It also seems like even if they had been burned from the experience, it would eventually heal and they be completely normal. So since they are alive now, I am assuming there was minimal/no damage done and they will heal and be fine if there was any. I am not downplaying the toxicity of chlorine/chloromines, but in my situation I believe my fish will be fine. Thank you very much for taking the time and giving such a detailed and researched pos.t
Should it happen again follow the instructions and dump some seachem prime in to detoxify any ammonia/nitrite until the filter sorts itself out and also see about getting a chunk of media from your lfs/a friend to kick start your filter again. Some lfs' sell mature media or just ask them for a few gravel chips from their display tank (generally cleanest tank ime) and add them to your filter.
Maybe even worth having a tub of zeolite around to buy you some time to think, get answers here, etc, so you don't make any rash decisions due to panic.
Keep testing your water because chances are you killed all your BB and you will get a white cloudy tank (bacterial bloom) in a few days as your filter kick starts again. Remember you can't see ammonia/nitrite so you need to test your water at least daily to make sure your fish are ok.
Plus some fish will appear fine and eat even though the water is slowly killing them. Do not assume they are ok just by looking at them, make sure.
Maybe even worth having a tub of zeolite around to buy you some time to think, get answers here, etc, so you don't make any rash decisions due to panic.
Keep testing your water because chances are you killed all your BB and you will get a white cloudy tank (bacterial bloom) in a few days as your filter kick starts again. Remember you can't see ammonia/nitrite so you need to test your water at least daily to make sure your fish are ok.
Plus some fish will appear fine and eat even though the water is slowly killing them. Do not assume they are ok just by looking at them, make sure.
