I need help for my girl! 27 year old Pacu

[Steven's Pacu]

The lighting differences are daytime photos and then nighttime photos. Sorry some are so dark! I have to clean one of the filters late tonight. Probably a good photo opp time to stop both filters so you can actually see her!

 

[Steven's Pacu]

Welcome to the forum! Post pics of that pacu!

The first thing I’d do is increase water change amount/frequency. As a general rule, you don’t want nitrates going above 20, so at 40 ppm you will be seeing some issues.

Thank you! I did a 60+ % water change today. My 4 yr old granddaughter is going to outlast me tonight, so have to clean one of the filters and test the water tomorrow.

 

[Steven's Pacu]

The one inch per gallon rule is a horrible rule to go by. A 2" fish has about 4 times the body mass of the same fish at 1" typically. Pacus are very massive for their length, they are just big bodied fish! The tank footprint is a much better indicator of tank size, I try to aim for twice the body length in depth and four times in length. Height isn't as important. Do you have plenty of surface agitation to aerate the water? What do you feed it? Do you have any pictures?
There is no "too many" gallons, the larger the tank, the better the fish will be.
You might want to think about an indoor pond. Probably the most cost effective way you can make a suitably large enclosure.

That's great information, thank you! I feed Bonnie algae wafers as a staple. She also loves fruits and some veggies. All in moderation I think? I might give her 4- 6 grapes, but she wants the bag! I posted photos on thebiggerthebetter, will post here too, and hopefully better photos tomorrow when I stop the filters temporarily.

 

[Steven's Pacu]

That's a first :O I'd hope they were Brazil aquatic documentaries... because Cat in a Hat and Alice in Wonderland would go way over Bonnie's head. I can't even wrap my head around them

pacu mom Susan, helpful tips here

On a serious note, pacu IQ is scary high for a fish. That's true. And regrettably makes them one of the most horrible tank mates because they know how to take advantage of tank mates often injuring them or even killing them when eating their fins, barbels, anything that sticks out and fits in their mouth. The beauty of giving Bonnie 2000 gal of water at least is you can add some more tank mates but be careful how you choose them and ask us for an advice, the fish collectors who do keep large pacu will be able to advise you well.

That's hilarious about the books! And Bonnie was just Enchanted, honestly! 2000 gallons is a whole lot of water, but I'm not afraid of floor jacks. She doesn't currently have any tank mates, but interesting that you brought it up. I've read that when Pacus as seniors are rather solitary. Do you think that she would want a tank mate when she gets a bigger tank/ indoor pond? And I didn't know that pacu's had high IQs but it doesn't surprise me after spending so many years with Bonnie!

 

[Simonas]

Hows Bonnie getting on now? I loved reading about your time with the pacu and I can only imagine that she is a much loved member of the family.

I hope she is picking up and has many more years in her

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I'd not plan to place the pond on a joisted floor. It may be ok but I'd not risk it. 2000 gal+ (16,000 lbs +) I'd place on a slab, basement or garage or FL room, etc.

 

[Steven's Pacu]

Welcome to the MFK!

Congratulations on keeping your pacu for 27 years. It is quite a remarkable achievement!

Sounds like you know a lot but need a bit of guidance.

Most usually an illness results from stress. Must ID and eliminate the source of stress. If the illness is in the acute phase, must treat too but again should have at least a good guess at diagnosis, not treat blindly. Mela and Pima are mild antiseptics while, if the ich is the correct diagnosis, it is an external parasite. No logic here.

SP: cloudy water usually means trouble with the nitrifying bacteria,
TBTB: it does often when the system is cycling, yes, but in your case it could be simply the medication

SP: and worried about oxygen
TBTB: yes, mela and pima deplete oxygen, usually when people use these, they add aeration / stirring. half the peers don't believe mela and pima do anything, half thinks it does something.

SP: with her swollen lips.
TBTB: i dont see a link of the lips with oxygen

SP: Her spots are gone, but seems more agitated today.
TBTB: stress

SP: I can continue with both Pima and Melafix,
TBTB: diagnosis or a good guess first

SP: I know water quality is where this begins
TBTB: YES! good job.

SP: It's so frustrating trying to figure it out
TBTB: it doesn't have to be

SP: Temp, ph, nitrifying bacteria, ammonia, nitrites, nitrites, filtration, particulates, media, oxygen, sunlight, water hardness,
TBTB: temp is trivial, pH not important except MUST be stable, NH3 NO2 NO3 is basics, particulates are totally irrelevant except for your viewing pleasure, oxygen is critical but trivial, lighting is of 10th importance, water hardness is trivial

SP: I'll see if I can figure out photos
TBTB: button in the left bottom corner of the reply window says attach files

SP: Would you suggest every two weeks for water changes, or test more for an as needed guide?
TBTB: I'd suggest 50%+ daily until the fish is healthy and 50% weekly or more from there

SP: I'm always worried about losing nitrifying bacteria with too much siphoning, too many water changes
TBTB: these do not affect nitrifying bacteria, they live on surfaces, not in the water column, they live ON you filter media

SP: or filter cleans. I
TBTB: that is a valid worry, you dont want to clean out filter too often, nor too infrequent, now having two canister filters it should be a charm - do one at a time, stagger; most important thing with canister filters is that water entering them MUST be as aerated as possible in your tank, best if drawn from the surface, not from the bottom of a largely stagnant tank or from a dead spot, that'd be terrible

SP: I've added nitrifying bacteria a handful of times after ammonia spiked, but it didn't seem to help. Actually the reverse a few times. Lots of factors to that maybe? Types of bacteria, water changes etc.
TBTB: NBs need long time to settle and start growing, what you added were seeds, it takes time to grow and the right conditions, one of the most overlooked is the oxygen, NBs need oxygen, the more, the better they will work for you, which is why wet-dry, biowheel, shower type filters are in general 10x more efficient per volume of media vs canisters, HOB, barrel, bucket filters etc.

SP: the tank was too small. Equivalent to us standing in a closet!
TBTB: good thinking

SP: Everywhere that I've read online, following inch of fish to gallons of water,
TBTB: This is for guppies and bettas

SP: says 500 gallons is sufficient. I have a friend who builds ponds, and has many carp outside, then inside. He's offered to help me build a bigger tank. Do you have thoughts on how many gallons would make her happy, but not too many, if that makes sense?
TBTB: for large fish it is 1 cubic inch per gallon, so say you pacu is 36" long 18" tall and crudely on average 3" wide = 1944 cubic inches! = need 2000 gal of water. and this is minimum. More is better. I may be off by a factor of 2, maybe she is only 1000 cubic inches, it is still 2x more than what you have now. again minimum.. so for comfort double the minimum, come back to the same 2000 gal that's roughly a 12ft x 3ft round above ground pool, cheap too. even vinyl liner will suffice if no folds , no creases, otherwise she will bite them up and make million holes.

HTH.

So crazy thorough, thank you!!
Her cloudy water has happened lots in the past, probably when I'm busier/ water quality, in most cases.

Hows Bonnie getting on now? I loved reading about your time with the pacu and I can only imagine that she is a much loved member of the family.

I hope she is picking up and has many more years in her

Me too! I'm just getting to one of her filters tonight, going to test her water a bit afterwards, and get better photos when her filters are off. She seems to be in better spirits, but her nostrils ( I'm pretty sure that's not the normal descriptor), are red and still doesn't look as healthy as she should be. The truth be told is that I have a cleaning business for residential and businesses. Normally this makes it easier to make my own schedule, but now running the show with only 2 of us instead of the usual 4-5. It's so hard to find help, so my Bonnie gets neglected, bottom line. I've let a few farther away clients go in hopes of balancing attention to Bonnie, 5 dogs, 3 of them seniors, one with lymphoma/ weekly chemo, one with Cushings disease, and my Crusty Crumb Tom cat. As gnarly as he can be, and has to be close to 20 now! I love all of them more than I can explain, and so happy to have the top dogs guiding me with Bonnie!

 

[Steven's Pacu]

I'd not plan to place the pond on a joisted floor. It may be ok but I'd not risk it. 2000 gal+ (16,000 lbs +) I'd place on a slab, basement or garage or FL room, etc.

I have to make it work. No garage, my basement is creepy and dark. On a positive note, my house is almost 140 years old, a Victorian stick house and built as solid as they come! Interior walls are 6', basement floor joists are solid, like trees! I only have one floor jack directly under her current tank, for maybe 23 of her years, and nothings moved. I'm thinking with multiple floor jacks, it will work! It has to.

And your words make perfect sense by the way! Dining room, now fish and plant room, is her only option. I do very much appreciate your real-time common sense however She won't go down like an anvil in this house, and I'm willing to risk a floor for her

 

[fishdance]

To your next tank, add auto water change and a fish safe partition to keep all your electrical cables and heaters out of the way. Pacu will bit everything out of curiosity so cracked glass heaters, shredded live electrical cables, chewed water hoses etc is normal.

 

[Steven's Pacu]

To your next tank, add auto water change and a fish safe partition to keep all your electrical cables and heaters out of the way. Pacu will bit everything out of curiosity so cracked glass heaters, shredded live electrical cables, chewed water hoses etc is normal.

Noooo lie.. Bonnie has a preference for glass actually . 6 old style glass heaters, D.o.n.e. I used to have a lot more fish gravel at the bottom, but have replaced it several times with broken glass. A miracle that she didn't get seriously hurt. Very fortunate that she saw 'shiny' instead of food! I've heard of auto water change, I'll look it up. Thank you!