ICK HELP PLEASE

[duanes]

Ick can sometimes takes weeks or more a month to cure.
That said, what you think may be ick, may be something else, and the treatment for one malady, might not be the same as the other.
Below is a bad case of ick.

often after the ick is gone, the skin appears pasty where the parasites had dug in.

I treated the above fish with only salt (no extra heat, because the total volume of the tank was 1000 gallons)
if the problem is not ick, raising the temp may not be a good idea, some bacterial infections become ore virulent at higher temps.
Below is another individual with ick

most of the parasites are located along the dorsal, and one dead center of the caudal.
If there is 1 visible ick, there are usually at least 1000 you can't see.
I usually maintain a high concentration of salt for at least 2 months to be sure all the dormant cysts have hatched out, and been killed. Because I had thousands of gallons, I invested in a salinity meter in order to maintain a 3ppt (parts per thousand salinity, sea water is 35ppt) concentration. I often used a 50lb bag of rock salt to treat a bad case.
These meters would be too expensive for the average aquarist.
There are some salt water swimming pool test strips available that could be used to tell if there is sufficient salt being used as a treatment.

 

[lebroc]

Ick can sometimes takes weeks or more a month to cure.
That said, what you think may be ick, may be something else, and the treatment for one malady, might not be the same as the other.
Below is a bad case of ick.

often after the ick is gone, the skin appears pasty where the parasites had dug in.

I treated the above fish with only salt (no extra heat, because the total volume of the tank was 1000 gallons)
if the problem is not ick, raising the temp may not be a good idea, some bacterial infections become ore virulent at higher temps.
Below is another individual with ick

most of the parasites are located along the dorsal, and one dead center of the caudal.
If there is 1 visible ick, there are usually at least 1000 you can't see.
I usually maintain a high concentration of salt for at least 2 months to be sure all the dormant cysts have hatched out, and been killed. Because I had thousands of gallons, I invested in a salinity meter in order to maintain a 3ppt (parts per thousand salinity, sea water is 35ppt) concentration. I often used a 50lb bag of rock salt to treat a bad case.
These meters would be too expensive for the average aquarist.
There are some salt water swimming pool test strips available that could be used to tell if there is sufficient salt being used as a treatment.

The fish in question has a scatter of spots, which look a bit like air bubbles stuck to her tail, they dont seem to be anywhere else on her body though...it does look very like the pictures i have googled...what else could it be if its not ick?

 

[duanes]

As many diseases as there are for humans, there are for fish.
If you have a camera, try and get a shot of the spots you see, and as close as you can get without blurring them. The tank, and its decor is not relevant just the part of the fish where the spots appear.

 

[lebroc]

As many diseases as there are for humans, there are for fish.
If you have a camera, try and get a shot of the spots you see, and as close as you can get without blurring them. The tank, and its decor is not relevant just the part of the fish where the spots appear.

Lol, I have been trying all day, my camera is useless, and the fish is whizzing around the tank all the time, i will post one if i can get one...I will keep trying!!

 

[lebroc]

Ok, now we have another fish with one spot on her tail...so I guess it is white spot...does this mean the salt isnt working, or does it still spread before you manage to kill it? thanks

 

[Drstrangelove]

Ok, now we have another fish with one spot on her tail...so I guess it is white spot...does this mean the salt isnt working, or does it still spread before you manage to kill it? thanks

No. If it is ich (and without a picture it's a guess), then no, nothing you have done has come close to curing the problem. It's early in the curing process. This will take 2 weeks at least, but 3 weeks to be certain.

At your current temp, the ich cyst (the white spot you see on the fish) takes 5 days to complete one stage. It grows larger until it's visible. That means many may be on every fish that will not be visible for days to come.

At 77 F, after 5 days, the cyst then detaches and falls to the tank bottom where it takes longer to complete another stage. And then it swims around looking for a host (that is a third stage.)

When it finds a host, it starts all over again.

Some of your fish are likely infected, but you haven't seen the cysts (too small or hidden on a gil flap, etc.)

This is a matter of patience if it's ich. Higher temps will make things move faster and help cure the fish of the parasite, but still will require patience.

High temps accelerate the life cycle such that the ich dies before it has time to complete a full life cycle. Salt alone will kill the ich in one of the 3 stages (swimming) and thus effectively exterminate it before it can re-infect a fish. Both are effective and can be combined if done properly (as instructed by others already.)

 

[lebroc]

No. If it is ich (and without a picture it's a guess), then no, nothing you have done has come close to curing the problem. It's early in the curing process. This will take 2 weeks at least, but 3 weeks to be certain.

At your current temp, the ich cyst (the white spot you see on the fish) takes 5 days to complete one stage. It grows larger until it's visible. That means many may be on every fish that will not be visible for days to come.

At 77 F, after 5 days, the cyst then detaches and falls to the tank bottom where it takes longer to complete another stage. And then it swims around looking for a host (that is a third stage.)

When it finds a host, it starts all over again.

Some of your fish are likely infected, but you haven't seen the cysts (too small or hidden on a gil flap, etc.)

This is a matter of patience if it's ich. Higher temps will make things move faster and help cure the fish of the parasite, but still will require patience.

High temps accelerate the life cycle such that the ich dies before it has time to complete a full life cycle. Salt alone will kill the ich in one of the 3 stages (swimming) and thus effectively exterminate it before it can re-infect a fish. Both are effective and can be combined if done properly (as instructed by others already.)

Thanks for that...so does the fact that it hasnt spread much to the other fish mean that is a good sign...i am so stressed!! i keep checking on them, its like having a new baby in the house!! I really dont want to lose any of them, as I know my daughter will be really upset, and I have gotten quite attached to them now...they all have their own personality...My friend has just been round, he said when his fish got it it spread really quickly and they were all covered in spots in a few days...
Just out of curiosity, if the salt kills them, how do marine fish get it?

 

[Drstrangelove]

Just out of curiosity, if the salt kills them, how do marine fish get it?

Marine ich is in the same phylum (ciliate) as freshwater ich. (Humans are in the same phylum as lizards, fish, dinosaurs, and reptiles.)

However marine and freshwater ich are not the same species, genus or even class. Not the creature.

 

[duanes]

I agree with Drstrangelove, the heat is used to speed up the ick life cycle, and the salt is used to kill the emerging new ick osmotically. Without extra heat, it will take longer, because the ick hatch out more slowly.
Until you get every last emerging ick, the treatment will not be over, because even 1 can start the epidemic over again
In nature (large bodies of water, 1 cyst does not cause an epidemic, but in an aquarium of even small pond reinfection is the norm.
It like when you are a passenger on an airplane with someone who has the flu.