Well you blokes I’m glad I can be the catalyst to some good old fashioned nostalgia!
Appreciate you both lending me your years of wisdom & experience!
Appreciate you both lending me your years of wisdom & experience!
ID assistance please
- Thread starter danotaylor
- Start date
No one can really even speculate on max size of mutts - WHY? Cause NO ONE keeps them. Everyone gets them then has life changing events that either lead to sale or death, or just get bored with the hobby, or make up your own reason.......
I assume they are like Lygers - get bigger then the pure blood that made them.
I made some mutts years back and was completely blown away as to how aggressive they were (eating tank mates) and how quick they grew - almost a foot across after first year.
Really sad to see the state of the ray hobby these days. People need to quit supporting the wrong people before that's all that's left......
I assume they are like Lygers - get bigger then the pure blood that made them.
I made some mutts years back and was completely blown away as to how aggressive they were (eating tank mates) and how quick they grew - almost a foot across after first year.
Really sad to see the state of the ray hobby these days. People need to quit supporting the wrong people before that's all that's left......
This is my first time w rays. I have been in the hobby for 40yrs with South & Central American, and Malawi & Tang cichlids.
I have no idea as to the “state” of the ray hobby these days as it’s all new to me.
I do understand it’s a time & financial commitment which I thought long and hard about before I bought in. Having a 500gal tank at least means a suitable environment for these 3 to be kept alone.
Your use of the term “mutts” seems to have a negative connotation. I could be wrong but one of the other posters in this thread used the same term.
Since this is all new to me I have a few sincere questions for you…
So are you personally against the production of “designer” hybrids? If yes, is that because of the aggression that you experienced with the hybrids you created?
What exactly is “the state” of the ray hobby “these days”?
Who are you talking about in terms of supporting “the wrong people”?
Before “what” is too late? The availability of pure strain rays?
Do I become part of the problem if I sell hybrid rays into the hobby?
Cheers mate. Danny
I have no idea as to the “state” of the ray hobby these days as it’s all new to me.
I do understand it’s a time & financial commitment which I thought long and hard about before I bought in. Having a 500gal tank at least means a suitable environment for these 3 to be kept alone.
Your use of the term “mutts” seems to have a negative connotation. I could be wrong but one of the other posters in this thread used the same term.
Since this is all new to me I have a few sincere questions for you…
So are you personally against the production of “designer” hybrids? If yes, is that because of the aggression that you experienced with the hybrids you created?
What exactly is “the state” of the ray hobby “these days”?
Who are you talking about in terms of supporting “the wrong people”?
Before “what” is too late? The availability of pure strain rays?
Do I become part of the problem if I sell hybrid rays into the hobby?
Cheers mate. Danny
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I agree with what has been written above. Seems most rays are mixes these days and the mix is really hard to know what is what, what they will look like, and what future pups will look like. Ray breeding is getting further and further away from what Mother Nature came up with. My favorite rays are "classic" leos. Some here may remember what those look like
. When's the last time you saw those???
To the OP, you have a nice tank size for rays. I wouldn't worry about trying to breed them and figuring out what the pups will look like. . Instead, enjoy them for what they are - super cool wet pets.
. When's the last time you saw those???To the OP, you have a nice tank size for rays. I wouldn't worry about trying to breed them and figuring out what the pups will look like. . Instead, enjoy them for what they are - super cool wet pets.
spotfin
I appreciate your reply. Seems I have entered the race at a time where the people who were involved when keeping rays was much less common, and most effort was put into raising and breeding pure strains, have now either quit or are in process of giving up on them because of “cheaper” hybrids being imported. Some of whom intentionally developed hybrids of their own in the process. I have kept and bred fish for 4 decades and have seen the rise of hybrid & “designer” species in many seasons of my fish keeping. Between overfishing wild populations, and the destruction of the gene pool through captive breeding, the drive of the mighty dollar has created huge ethical challenges as people try to create the next “big thing”. The discus strains available now from a small handful of wild strains is mind boggling. What does one do
I have kept many “display only” tanks in my lifetime, some all male for that reason, but the challenge of working with a new species and ultimately breeding and raising their offspring is what I actually enjoy the most.
If I am successful with this trio, I certainly have interest in working with a pure strain in the future.
Hybrids = mutts. I didn't coin the term, the dog world did...... lol. Sorry if you feel it's negative.This is my first time w rays. I have been in the hobby for 40yrs with South & Central American, and Malawi & Tang cichlids.
I have no idea as to the “state” of the ray hobby these days as it’s all new to me.
I do understand it’s a time & financial commitment which I thought long and hard about before I bought in. Having a 500gal tank at least means a suitable environment for these 3 to be kept alone.
Your use of the term “mutts” seems to have a negative connotation. I could be wrong but one of the other posters in this thread used the same term.
Since this is all new to me I have a few sincere questions for you…
So are you personally against the production of “designer” hybrids? If yes, is that because of the aggression that you experienced with the hybrids you created?
What exactly is “the state” of the ray hobby “these days”?
Who are you talking about in terms of supporting “the wrong people”?
Before “what” is too late? The availability of pure strain rays?
Do I become part of the problem if I sell hybrid rays into the hobby?
Cheers mate. Danny
I'm NOT at all against people making "mutts" - to each their own - I'm open minded, but after raising a bunch I personally did not enjoy the results I got, so have chosen to focus on producing pure bloods.
The "state" of the hobby right now is an influx of designer hybrids and rays being passed off as "pure". The problem with the rays being brought in is most are being sold strictly for profit so the genetics are unknown and the people looking to have a ray for less money also don't care about the genetics. HOWEVER when it comes time to sell the ray everything changes. There USED to be trustworthy sources for rays but now people pop up all the time with cheap rays for sale and no one questions lineage. After years of this none of the breeders are exactly interested in trying to convince people why they should buy rays with known lineage so they just bail from the hobby.
The "wrong people" are the people that have to sell fish to pay bills. The people that put profit in front of health of the animal. People that will jeapoardize fish to save money wether it be food/housing and or shipping. The people lying through their teeth to make a sale.
What is too late - availability of trusted lineage - not just pure blood rays but sources for them. Specific bloodlines.
No, you are part of the hobby by simply keeping rays. IF you were to actually keep track of lineage and are honest about it then you're helping combat the problem, not becoming part of it...... Not knowing lineage and lying about if would be contributing to the problem.
I'm biased. I believe rays are like dogs - a huge commitment. I believe its best to obtain rays that are raised in high standard environments. Hard to take care of stuff better then the people producing so why not source from them? If there's people out there doing all the work to insure your success when keeping why not buy from them instead of trying to maximize value by buying the cheapest ray possible then having to ask the people that are "too expensive" about how to care of them cause the flipper you got it from has no clue on anything other then the fact that the fish they sold you was in perfect health and all mistakes were on you.
Thanks for your reply DB. I appreciate you bringing clarity to the questions I asked. Part of the purpose in starting this thread was to try to be more specific in knowing what I am working with with this trio. I would be dishonest if I said I didn’t hope to make some money breeding rays, but not to pay my bills, not profit over the health & welfare of the fish themselves, and certainly not by falsely advertising the breed or lineage of them. I did attempt to discover from the previous owner the information I set out to discover in this thread. I am glad he was honest enough to describe my “mutts” 
as hybrids, as being a newbie to rays, despite doing my homework, I wouldn’t have known either way.
I would not have been opposed to sourcing rays from breeders who have been working with them for years but I only discovered MFK after the fact. I saw the rays I bought on Craigslist actually and did scope some of the retail stores that supply and ship them but settled on this established trio cause I really like the patterns, and though the most expensive fish I have ever purchased, committed to the financial & care side of things from a genuine heart to care for them, and hopefully bring something cool breeding wise from them also.
Cheers again for your informative reply mate.
Danny
as hybrids, as being a newbie to rays, despite doing my homework, I wouldn’t have known either way.I would not have been opposed to sourcing rays from breeders who have been working with them for years but I only discovered MFK after the fact. I saw the rays I bought on Craigslist actually and did scope some of the retail stores that supply and ship them but settled on this established trio cause I really like the patterns, and though the most expensive fish I have ever purchased, committed to the financial & care side of things from a genuine heart to care for them, and hopefully bring something cool breeding wise from them also.
Cheers again for your informative reply mate.
Danny
Its good to see some old names on here!!! Been a longgg time!! i agree with all you guys said, things have changed a lot!!
To the OP, enjoy those rays, they are a lot of fun, if you keep them healthy, do your water changes, dont change up things constantly they live a long long time. My oldest is around 15years old or so.
I enjoyed seeing the mixes start back in the day, especially some of the leo x hen's, but now its crazy how there is so many, and no clue what is what.
To the OP, enjoy those rays, they are a lot of fun, if you keep them healthy, do your water changes, dont change up things constantly they live a long long time. My oldest is around 15years old or so.
I enjoyed seeing the mixes start back in the day, especially some of the leo x hen's, but now its crazy how there is so many, and no clue what is what.
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