Identify your North American Native Fish

MN_Rebel

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hi all. i have couple of bullheads in my tanks and i have a problem identifying them. they are wild caught (just so happened i drove 1400kilometers to fish them) and they should be brown bullheads.
the problem is, i counted only 19 anal fin rays and i think they may actually be black bullheads? also they have smooth edges on their spines.
even though these are not north american caught fish, but instead, they are from southern finland. they were introduced here first in 1920 from germany and later on they were transferred around finland until 1950 someone noticed that they have no commercial value so the transferring was halted.
i have been obsessed to find them since i was 10, and finally last summer i found them and im now 27 :D
talk about obsession...
anyway, i hope someone can help me with these, i can post pictures of them when i figure how to do it :) (first time posting pics on a forum via mobile)

View attachment 1145322
Black Bullheads. However black and brown bullheads readily hybridizes in the wild and it can be hard to tell the difference between the purebreds and the hybrids.
 
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Frank Castle

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Looks like a "tiger" to me, not a real fish... brown * brook
good job, your turn! It's about as real s a Wiper or a Tiger Musky. might not occur naturally, but they have been responsibly "engineered" to be natives but sterilized by temperature extremes and whatnot. To me, I like having a few extra gamefish out there as long as they aren't hurting the ecosystem itself.
 

Frank Castle

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Anyone know a fishery that sells tiger trouts? They are hybrids brown and brooks would be awesome to keep a small pond/stream of these. They get big fast, I've never caught one has anyone here caught one before?
There's a hatchery in Elverson, PA that does hybrids, you might be able to find some there. I don't remember the name, it just came up one day on search engine while I was looking for bass hatcheries to stock my friend's private pond.

French Creek and Stony Creek Angler's clubs seem to stock an abundance of them every year too.
 
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MN_Rebel

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good job, your turn! It's about as real s a Wiper or a Tiger Musky. might not occur naturally, but they have been responsibly "engineered" to be natives but sterilized by temperature extremes and whatnot. To me, I like having a few extra gamefish out there as long as they aren't hurting the ecosystem itself.
Tiger trout in MN, are natural hybrids since we do not stock tiger trout at all, just a rare hybrid that can be found in southeast MN where the breeding populations of brook and brown trout are at. They're good predators as biological control to weed out stunted brook trout. I do not know why we cannot stock these sterile tiger trout in heavily degraded trout streams.
 
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Frank Castle

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Tiger trout in MN, are natural hybrids since we do not stock tiger trout at all, just a rare hybrid that can be found in southeast MN where the breeding populations of brook and brown trout are at. They're good predators as biological control to weed out stunted brook trout. I do not know why we cannot stock these sterile tiger trout in heavily degraded trout streams.
Well, IDK if the natural hybridization are sterile.....captive bred Tigers are made sterile on purpose by a variety of low to high extreme temperatures ( or vice versa).....there's a very good chance this natural occurring race may be able to reproduce by spawning.

As many hybrids are sterile at birth like a Mule or a Liger/Tiglon, many others are NOT, such as Flowerhorns, Gulf Hammock Ratsnakes, Greenish ratsnakes, and seemingly mainly ectotherms.

Now what we must do is take into consideration the extreme of the actual genetic crossing itself; for instance, until the genus Patherophis was created, the N.American ratsnakes were still grouped as Elaphe, then supposed genetics testing classed the Grey, Yellow, Black, Everglades, Gulf Hammock, Greenish and Baird's (?) I think, as all the same species under Pantherophis, when each used to have it's own sub-species.

The Gulf Hammock was a naturally occurring INTERGRADE which occurred in NW Florida pan-handle where the 2 sub-species natural ranges overlapped, they interbred with each other.....all the offspring were also in turn, fertile, thus creating a new race, locale, or to some, a new sub-species. Would you still consider that a hybrid. Of course not.

Tiger trout may occur naturally in the wild, but when that happens, I would likely refer to it as an Intergrade, rather than a Hybrid....and the offspring very-well may be fertile.

NOW,.......when WE genetically engineer sterile Tiger trout for our own purposes, then yes, despite it being the same strain from the species and/or gena, I would refer to THAT as a hybrid or to add a little flexibility to which side of the line we're walking, we could simply go with a Unnaturally-induced Intergrade, since it does occur in the wild. This can include crossing sub-species, species, or even gena, for instance there have been naturally occurring Pacific Gopher snakeXCalifornia Kingsnakes found in the wild

Finally, when we create a combination of 2 animals that would never encounter each other in the wild such as a Savannah Cat - 50% African Serval, 50% Domestic Housecat, then we truly have what I would classify as a hybrid.

There is one I still throw up in the air for discussion, the case of the Liger/Tiglon. Most people would not think of this to occur naturally, but before the extirpation of the extinct Caspian Tiger in the 1950's, and the critically endangered Asiatic Lion, found only in the Gir Forest of India their ranges did in fact overlap. Even now, the odds are astronomical due to both Lions and Tigers becoming more and more rare in Asia, but one must still consider it a possibility that they could have or still hybridize in the wild. We would still however classify this as a Hybrid however, IMO, based on the fact that regardless of the situation, the offspring will still be sterile.

Ok, Proffessor, I'm finished my thesis [(-_-)]
 

MN_Rebel

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It's already proven naturally tiger trout is sterile. The captive bred tigers were heat shocked to just increases the egg survivability up to 90% unlike the 10-20% in tigers without heat shocking and the heat shocking caused the tigers to gain a third chromosome.
 

Frank Castle

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It's already proven naturally tiger trout is sterile. The captive bred tigers were heat shocked to just increases the egg survivability up to 90% unlike the 10-20% in tigers without heat shocking and the heat shocking caused the tigers to gain a third chromosome.
I thought they did that to Tigers and Wipers to make them sterile?

BrookKeeper BrookKeeper post another pic, dude
 
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