inbreeding

[joey02]

Inbred rays are fine.. As long as it is not extensive.. a brother and sister from different litters, or even the same litter will produce normal pups. Its extensive inbreeding that will cause problems....

Anyone that is against it just doesnt like the word itself. Show me a first generation inbred ray with problems.

 

[Just Toby]

yes in the wild nature does sort itself out but we took them out of that and now we are in control and there is nothing natural about that. its nice to have good quality rays and not so much of imbred. we choose now basically who mates and who dosent. i say not to imbreed cause then we have an imbred from these two and another imbred from those two and then its all once massive imbreeding project. thats why so many people like to bring in wilds occasionallly cause they are mainly free of that, and to bring in diversity. ya they might imbreed in the amazon very slim chance though as its so much bigger and diverse than our tanks. so lets keep quality and not so much on the quantity just to produce some pups. there are lots of nice rays over there to get those girls so i say go find a male that you really like. it dosent have to be now take your time and dont rush things. thats just my 2 cents though

Do not get me wrong, I would prefer that they are not imbred.

I am paying a reasonable amount of money for my Rays (over £1000) as I am buying small pups of quality.
(1 AAA Marble Motoro and 1 Pearl)

 

[vamptrev]

there are lots of arguements on this issue and i know alot of breeders do it to get the paterns they want.

i never heard any proof of health problems

but why do it if you dont have too?

 

[ShadowStryder]

Most breeders whether fish, dogs or whatever do it primarily to repeat a certain trait that a parent has, ie: certain markings, colors or patterns, etc. Just cause they do it doesn't make it genetically strong, it can also repeat a poor genetic trait. So you take the good with the bad. If two pups are born with an internally genetic flaw you will never know. So then you just weakened the genetic trait within that line of rays.

 

[gaz025]

thats a fair explination. if one ray has a heart defect then whatever you breed it with the offspring have more chance of having a similar problem regardless of wether it came from a related ray. just as if you pick two unrelated rays with genetic defects then they offspring are likley to have a defect themselves.

im sure there are as many non related pups with defects as there are related pups with defects.

looking at pedigree dogs worth several hundereds of pounds ive seen perfectly healthy litters from related parents and also several unhealthy littlers from unrelated parents

tbh i think i am more likley to get an unrelated male at a later date just because having them related is an issue for other people rather than it actually being a problem.

 

[Rochen28]

thats a fair explination. if one ray has a heart defect then whatever you breed it with the offspring have more chance of having a similar problem regardless of wether it came from a related ray. just as if you pick two unrelated rays with genetic defects then they offspring are likley to have a defect themselves.

im sure there are as many non related pups with defects as there are related pups with defects.

looking at pedigree dogs worth several hundereds of pounds ive seen perfectly healthy litters from related parents and also several unhealthy littlers from unrelated parents

tbh i think i am more likley to get an unrelated male at a later date just because having them related is an issue for other people rather than it actually being a problem.

There are 2 aspects to the question you pose:

(1) Objective

If you are a breeder and want to fix a certain pattern or trait you want to achieve for commercial value, then inbreeding is the only way to improve the strain and fix it. In most cases, its take about 5 - 7 generations to fix a strain for sting rays and along the way you can and should introduce some new blood as in crossing with an unrelated specimen. However, inbreeding typically have no adverse effects until many generation of imbreeding.

(2) Ethics

If you are purely keeping rays as a hobbyist and your beliefs dictate your behaviour and that of your pets, then incest is definately a no go. My pal's wife's strictly forbid him to keep more than one female with his male ray on the grounds that it might corrupt his thinking and she is a strong advocate of a momgamous marriage.

So my friend, do what you are comfortable with..cheers

 

[Just Toby]

she is a strong advocate of a momgamous marriage.

I bet I could cure her....... hee hee!

 

[T1KARMANN]

Do not get me wrong, I would prefer that they are not imbred.

I am paying a reasonable amount of money for my Rays (over £1000) as I am buying small pups of quality.
(1 AAA Marble Motoro and 1 Pearl)

wow thats expencive

marble motoro £300 max no matter what flash name you want to give it
peals £400-500 max

you are paying 200 over the top

but if you like them buy them if not walk away a fish is only worth what someone is willing to pay

 

[gaz025]

There are 2 aspects to the question you pose:

(1) Objective

If you are a breeder and want to fix a certain pattern or trait you want to achieve for commercial value, then inbreeding is the only way to improve the strain and fix it. In most cases, its take about 5 - 7 generations to fix a strain for sting rays and along the way you can and should introduce some new blood as in crossing with an unrelated specimen. However, inbreeding typically have no adverse effects until many generation of imbreeding.

(2) Ethics

If you are purely keeping rays as a hobbyist and your beliefs dictate your behaviour and that of your pets, then incest is definately a no go. My pal's wife's strictly forbid him to keep more than one female with his male ray on the grounds that it might corrupt his thinking and she is a strong advocate of a momgamous marriage.

So my friend, do what you are comfortable with..cheers

haha . i think that sums it up quite discretly . well done and thank you

 

[Zoodiver]

First let me say I'm against crossing species in the first place. All we are doing is polluting a very limited gene pool. Inbreeding cross bred rays is only going to make the problem worse.


As for siblings, a big fat NO. It's been proven to cause development and genetic issues. Parent to offspring has shown to be ok, but not brother to sister.