Keyhole Cichlid aggression

[neutrino]

Couldn't remember your tank size... I'd be less confident in a 3ft tank, the 50% extra length of 4ft vs. 3ft makes a difference. Still possible, but I expect it would depend on the temperament of the two fish, possibly on the gender of the second fish. Some people keep curviceps in small tanks, like 20 gals, and it works for them, so if you wanted to try it that's a feasible option if they didn't work out together.

A lot of people here are used to bigger tanks, myself included, my smallest is a 50, even for growing fry. Looong time ago I had a 30 gal with a couple of angels, a few small cichlids, some tetras and other small fish, bits of driftwood, lot of plants-- and, with the care I gave it, no issues. A lot of people start small, some stay small and make an art of smaller tanks. It's just a different aesthetic, not what most here are used to, and some can no longer wrap their heads around it. Your perspective changes when you get used to larger tanks and larger fish. I still see nicely done 3ft tanks with some smaller cichlids in them, but it's been a while since I've done it myself and I've lost the touch of having that perspective.

On the other hand, I sometimes see these goofy 'can I keep my Oscar in a 55 with (a list of) other large, aggressive cichlids' questions that make me wonder what people are thinking.

 

[ryansmith83]

I have two Cleithracara, five Laetacara dorsigera, and six Mikrogeophagus altispinosus in a 40 breeder with no issues. These are peaceful fish that are only aggressive when spawning or dealing with conspecifics. I can’t even imagine Cleithracara and Laetacara would interact unless defending a spawn.

 

[Ravynn]

Couldn't remember your tank size... I'd be less confident in a 3ft tank, the 50% extra length of 4ft vs. 3ft makes a difference. Still possible, but I expect it would depend on the temperament of the two fish, possibly on the gender of the second fish. Some people keep curviceps in small tanks, like 20 gals, and it works for them, so if you wanted to try it that's a feasible option if they didn't work out together.

A lot of people here are used to bigger tanks, myself included, my smallest is a 50, even for growing fry. Looong time ago I had a 30 gal with a couple of angels, a few small cichlids, some tetras and other small fish, bits of driftwood, lot of plants-- and, with the care I gave it, no issues. A lot of people start small, some stay small and make an art of smaller tanks. It's just a different aesthetic, not what most here are used to, and some can no longer wrap their heads around it. Your perspective changes when you get used to larger tanks and larger fish. I still see nicely done 3ft tanks with some smaller cichlids in them, but it's been a while since I've done it myself and I've lost the touch of having that perspective.

On the other hand, I sometimes see these goofy 'can I keep my Oscar in a 55 with (a list of) other large, aggressive cichlids' questions that make me wonder what people are thinking.

Yes, i'm more of the small tank/smaller fish person because those are the sizes I can take care of, although I don't think i'd ever go below a 20 long again or go above a 40 breeder. I guess the name of the site kind of gives away the types of fishkeepers here.

I have two Cleithracara, five Laetacara dorsigera, and six Mikrogeophagus altispinosus in a 40 breeder with no issues. These are peaceful fish that are only aggressive when spawning or dealing with conspecifics. I can’t even imagine Cleithracara and Laetacara would interact unless defending a spawn.

Intriguing! Do you have any breeding pairs of the Laetacara or Mikrogeophagus in that tank? (not that i'm interested in breeding) What type of aggression do you see in them if at all? What kind of tank layout do you have?

I also found Nannacara Anomala as another easy to find species. Wonder if they would work as well.

 

[Ravynn]

My local store also has a single male Steel Blue Apisto but I have a feeling they would be more aggressive than these little acaras.

 

[neutrino]

Haven't had apistos in nearly 30 years, haven't kept up with them as far as types now availabe, but when I had them they mostly kept to themselves and got along with everything else, including curviceps, rams, and discus.

I like a peaceful tank, not that I haven't had aggressive or territorial cichlids. I'm okay with them, and with courting aggression, breeding feistiness, etc., but only up to a point, when I get real troublemakers I make adjustments and I remember it when a particular species doesn't work with other fish I've had.

If I have trouble with something I remember it a long time...

For example, I can describe in detail how over a few days a betta I had backed down and intimidated a jewel fish that roughed it up 30 years ago-- afterward the jewel wanted nothing to do with the betta-- or how for me some jewel fish were no problem, but when one roughed up a favorite severum 25 years ago, it went right back to the lfs and, as much as I liked them for color, it was the last one I ever had.

 

[ryansmith83]

Intriguing! Do you have any breeding pairs of the Laetacara or Mikrogeophagus in that tank? (not that i'm interested in breeding) What type of aggression do you see in them if at all? What kind of tank layout do you have?

I also found Nannacara Anomala as another easy to find species. Wonder if they would work as well.

The Laetacara spend a lot of time displaying and trying to pair off but I don’t think there’s enough privacy for them to settle down and spawn. I only see them interact with each other. I have kept Laetacara with everything under the sun — Mikrogeophagus, Geophagus, Heros, Mesonauta, Pterophyllum, Symphysodon, Uaru... I’ve never had issues with them. Usually with Laetacara there is only conspecific aggression and chasing. If they pair off they will defend territories and chase off other fish, but all cichlids do that.

 

[Ravynn]

The Laetacara spend a lot of time displaying and trying to pair off but I don’t think there’s enough privacy for them to settle down and spawn. I only see them interact with each other. I have kept Laetacara with everything under the sun — Mikrogeophagus, Geophagus, Heros, Mesonauta, Pterophyllum, Symphysodon, Uaru... I’ve never had issues with them. Usually with Laetacara there is only conspecific aggression and chasing. If they pair off they will defend territories and chase off other fish, but all cichlids do that.

I contacted a fish store in the next city and they don't have Laetacara on their list but will contact me if they show up. My other option was the 1 Bolivian. My local store has a ton of them they got in a while ago but they're quite small and I think imported from Asia so not sure how hardy they are.

 

[Ravynn]

I'd normally expect a single male keyhole and a ram to work and for them to either get along or find niches in different parts of the tank-- which, sure, your tank is smaller than their wild habitat, but in a tank with structure at the ends, whether caves, driftwood, plants, etc., they can each have their own bit of territory, which is typical ime with smaller, reasonably peaceful species. One strategy would be to put them in the tank at the same time, keyhole, ram, and some schooling fish to initialize a new community. You could add final pieces either right away or later at your convenience. That way, everyone is new, on equal footing, and can find their niche in their new surroundings. My only reservation would be if it meant you had the same dilemma of what to do with the ram if it didn't work.

Imo there are other options also, an angelfish, small group of smaller growing geos (though these species tend to be less commonly available), one of the smaller loaches-- some of these are entertaining fish ime, a small to medium fancy pleco-- some, like L200 plecos, are showy, L200 I've had are reasonably visible when they get comfortable in a tank.

So, i've got a lot of the fish I want in the tank already. I've got the cories, black phantom tetras, bristlenose, keyhole... and I was planning on trying out another cichlid. I'm getting more driftwood and plants next week to fill in the tank even more.

I was planning on trying out a bolivian ram (and I will have somewhere to keep him if it doesn't work out) and I re-read some of your replies and noticed you mentioned angelfish. Would one of those be possible in my tank? I know they like to hang out near the top more. If not, i'll still try out the bolivian. Tank is 36x18x17.

 

[Zanzag]

Could probably do an angel. Cant remember if phantoms are nippy with fins or not but at maturity that angel's body could end up palm sized. Thats not with the fins.

 

[Ravynn]

Could probably do an angel. Cant remember if phantoms are nippy with fins or not but at maturity that angel's body could end up palm sized. Thats not with the fins.

My Keyhole has some decently long fins at the moment and the phantoms don't go near him, I find they just bicker in their own school. You think the angel would be fine in this size tank even when mature? Just want to make sure.