Losing fish (Geophagus Sveni) but can't figure out why... water OK, temp OK. Don't know what to do.

[krelltunez]

Hello everyone. I'm posting for the first time here after getting tons of good info from this forum. I'm just so frustrated and I have no idea how to proceed. Here's the quick summary:

• 125 gallon, cycled since 3/3 (took 9 days with seeded filter media)
• Lightly planted - here's what I've got:
  • Dwarf Water Lily
  • Red Tiger Lotus (x2)
  • Red Root Floaters (tons)
  • Water Sprite
• Water is crystal clear with slight tint of tannins from driftwood
• pH 6.4
• Ammonia 0
• Nitrites 0
• Nitrates <10 (it has never reached higher than 10 and I test often)
• Stocking
  • 7 large mystery snails (added 3/3/25)
  • 10 small mystery snails (added 3/8/25)
  • 4 Geophagus Sveni juveniles (8 added 3/16)
  • 6 Dusky Narrow Hatchetfish (added 3/30)
• Oxygenation via canister filter outflow and large air stone

The first Geo that died was found floating on top of the water on 3/29. Did an immediate 20-25% water change (despite parameters being fine). Second Geo found dead on bottom on 3/31. Third and fourth dead Geos found today 4/1 (one looked like he might have died last night, whereas I literally saw the other one spiral and pass away).

The first 12 days I had the fish, they were spunky and active, constantly sifting sand as they will do. On 3/29, in addition to finding the first dead one, they were acting stressed and scared, not coming to greet me at the glass every time I walked by (like they'd always done before). I added some Sachem Stress Guard after the water change.

I added the Hatchetfish on 3/30 thinking some dither fish may help calm the Geos down, but they had no effect (the Hatchetfish seem to be doing great so far). The Geos will have periods where they almost act like they used to, but eventually they go back to hiding. They sift sand only occasionally.

Aside from acting stressed, the Geos look 100% fine. know the store I got them from very well, have purchased other fish there, and they'd had the Geos for at least a month before I bought these. I plan to go there and see what the owner thinks, and if he's inexplicably lost any of them (he had loads more).

Sorry this is so long, I wanted to provide as much info as possible (I'd be happy to provide more pictures, video, or any other information that might be helpful). I have pics of the first two dead fish, but I don't like to look at them so didn't want to post them. Please let me know if you have any ideas on things that might be going on and/or steps I could take (or anything I may have left out).

 

[cockroach]

2 things that come to mind:
1. Have you checked the water for any electric leaks? Or other external stimulus bothering them.
2. What is your feeding regime? I knew a guy who struggled with small geo's as the food he was feeding was working well for the malnourished fish he was getting.

 

[duanes]

It looks like you are doing everything right.
Since all your parameters, if read correcctly are right, this is a bit on an enigma.
pH good (what about water hardness, and mineral content?) these eos experience very low conductivity, annd mineral contant in nature?
Did the breeder use RO/DI?
The no ammonia and nitrite are perfect, (nirate a little high for my taste, looks like almost 20ppm), but not excessive.

A good point was made by cockroach, what size foods are you using? Flake?
Although Geos have large mouths, they are only able to process small foods, and even small pellets are sometimes too much.

What about current Geos need very well oxygenated water, and although the young don't require lots of flow at this point, they do need higher DO levels than say sedate water speccies such as severus.
What are water temps? cooler water (mid 70s'F) contain higher) O2 levels than 80s"F temps.

And then there us the old bugaboo, QT
Sometimes fish arrive with unseen infections we aquarists have little control over.
And some times some individuals just die.

 

[krelltunez]

THANK YOU BOTH for your replies!

2 things that come to mind:
1. Have you checked the water for any electric leaks? Or other external stimulus bothering them.
2. What is your feeding regime? I knew a guy who struggled with small geo's as the food he was feeding was working well for the malnourished fish he was getting.

1. How would I check that? There's no shock when I put my finger on the water surface. Is there a more scientific way to check this?
2. I feed Hikari Cichlid Gold sinking pellets (crushed with a pestle and mortar since their mouths are so small), once a day.

It looks like you are doing everything right.
Since all your parameters, if read correcctly are right, this is a bit on an enigma.
pH good (what about water hardness, and mineral content?) these eos experience very low conductivity, annd mineral contant in nature?
Did the breeder use RO/DI?
The no ammonia and nitrite are perfect, (nirate a little high for my taste, looks like almost 20ppm), but not excessive.

A good point was made by cockroach, what size foods are you using? Flake?
Although Geos have large mouths, they are only able to process small foods, and even small pellets are sometimes too much.

What about current Geos need very well oxygenated water, and although the young don't require lots of flow at this point, they do need higher DO levels than say sedate water speccies such as severus.
What are water temps? cooler water (mid 70s'F) contain higher) O2 levels than 80s"F temps.

And then there us the old bugaboo, QT
Sometimes fish arrive with unseen infections we aquarists have little control over.
And some times some individuals just die.

As mentioned above, I crush the Hikari Cichlid Gold sinking pellets. I bought the small ones but they struggled with those so I crush them which seems to work fine (they still sink, which the Geos like).

I will test GH and KH (I believe I have the kit for this). What should I be looking for? As for the other tests, I am terrible at reading them - my wife and I thought nitrates were closer to 10 ppm. I will do another water change soon, so that will likely bring it down some. I have plants growing so I am not sure why the nitrates would increase (though I do have lots of snails producing waste!).

I have a DO test kit that is a royal PIA, but I'll go ahead and test today. I really don't think oxygenation is the issue, as I have decent flow from the canister filter outflow and a massive air stone. The surface agitation is such that I had to create corrals for my RRF (in the center of the tank), as they were getting tumbled around too much and dying.

Water temp is stable right around 79. My understanding is the lowest I could go would be around 76. I chose the middle of the range that the fish prefer (lots of conflicting guidance on this but it seemed 78-79 was a good target).

What's strange is that, as of this morning, I've lost 6 of the group of 8 (1 more died yesterday and 1 this morning). They're literally dying one at a time over the last 5 days. One minute, they'll be swimming around, the next they're laying on the sand with labored breathing, and before I can do anything they're gone. I don't even have time to euthanize them!

I do plan to ask the store owner if he's had any die off (I doubt he had any clue about this problem so I don't plan to place any blame on him). What's weird is I've had my eye on these fish for a couple months - as he had a tank full of them for a long time. In the store, they're also always super active and personable - just like mine were for the first week.

This experience has really hit me hard. I was really proud of the home I'd created for these guys!!!

 

[DawnMichele]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Krackar]

1. How would I check that? There's no shock when I put my finger on the water surface. Is there a more scientific way to check this?

I tested my tank after my fish got shocked and I couldn't feel anything myself. I used a multimeter to test the water potential difference to ground. I lost a fair amount of fish from this. Every time an electrical device is used in the tank the voltage potential of the water to ground would increase. Even the canister filters that only have the intake and output pipes in the tank. As soon as i plugged a Hygger heater in the potential in the tank would drop to 0 volts. With everything plugged in and running i was seeing around 48v in the tank. The heater obviously was shorting to ground causing a small current to flow through the water. I now don't use any items in the tank that have a ground pin and can cause this issue.

 

[neutrino]

The only thing I see is the bellies on at least a couple of them look like they could be overfed-- in particular (top photo) the one closest to the front and the one furthest left. And the one furthest right, while not as bad, would be enough for me to back off and feed less. Or, if not overfed, this could hint at bloat. I'm honestly not a fan of Hikari foods, but I wouldn't put the blame there if fed sparingly; however, (if it was me) I'd look at feeding as a possible factor.

 

[krelltunez]

I tested my tank after my fish got shocked and I couldn't feel anything myself. I used a multimeter to test the water potential difference to ground. I lost a fair amount of fish from this. Every time an electrical device is used in the tank the voltage potential of the water to ground would increase. Even the canister filters that only have the intake and output pipes in the tank. As soon as i plugged a Hygger heater in the potential in the tank would drop to 0 volts. With everything plugged in and running i was seeing around 48v in the tank. The heater obviously was shorting to ground causing a small current to flow through the water. I now don't use any items in the tank that have a ground pin and can cause this issue.

Hmm, I read your reply twice and I still have no idea how to test the tank for this. I'll look into it.

The only thing I see is the bellies on at least a couple of them look like they could be overfed-- in particular (top photo) the one closest to the front and the one furthest left. And the one furthest right, while not as bad, would be enough for me to back off and feed less. Or, if not overfed, this could hint at bloat. I'm honestly not a fan of Hikari foods, but I wouldn't put the blame there if fed sparingly; however, (if it was me) I'd look at feeding as a possible factor.

I don't disagree with your observation, but with only feeding them once per day I guess I'm not sure how I could have done that. I did give them a decent amount of food, because I figured they were young and active and needed it. Would multiple smaller feedings per day be better? I've kept fish for a while and never had an issue like this.

Also, geez... I thought Hikari was one of the best foods. There's such inconsistent guidance and information in this hobby! Why exactly don't you like Hikari foods?

 

[krelltunez]

Sorry for your loss.

Thanks. I only have one left.

 

[DawnMichele]

Thanks. I only have one left.