Looks like you might just need a bigger screen then. Any growth off the bottom of the screen is already too long.
Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Now that I've read through this thread from beginning to end, I'm ready to get rolling.
First, thanks for preventing me from throwing a cinder block through my 40 breeder zoo tank I set up almost a year ago. I've been at war with hair algae from the get go and haven't done anything with the tank for months because I've been so disgusted with it. Finally, some hope for a solution. (Yes, I'm too cheap/poor to buy a RO/DI unit) I've always felt that my water is what it is and I have to work around it. I'm hard-headed that way.
Anyway, project #1
Remove my skimmer from the sump and retrofit a two screen scrubber. Based on what I've read here, I think a two (or more) screen scrubber will reduce maintenance and increase effectiveness. That's to be seen of course.
Photos of my funky algae overgrowth incoming shortly.
Project #2
My FW 110 gallon tank in my sunroom is overgrown with algae. Obviously, because it's in a sunroom. To remedy this, I'm going to build a hybrid light scrubber. Hybrid in that it partially runs off of pure sunlight from dawn to dusk, but then timers will turn on supplemental light to round out 18 hours when it's dark outside.
Project #3
My 210 gallon FW has a fairly heavy bio load since I use it to grow out brood stock. I'm going to build a scrubber for it that will be the only filtration on the tank.
Pics and test readings as soon as I get each built.
First, thanks for preventing me from throwing a cinder block through my 40 breeder zoo tank I set up almost a year ago. I've been at war with hair algae from the get go and haven't done anything with the tank for months because I've been so disgusted with it. Finally, some hope for a solution. (Yes, I'm too cheap/poor to buy a RO/DI unit) I've always felt that my water is what it is and I have to work around it. I'm hard-headed that way.
Anyway, project #1
Remove my skimmer from the sump and retrofit a two screen scrubber. Based on what I've read here, I think a two (or more) screen scrubber will reduce maintenance and increase effectiveness. That's to be seen of course.
Photos of my funky algae overgrowth incoming shortly.
Project #2
My FW 110 gallon tank in my sunroom is overgrown with algae. Obviously, because it's in a sunroom. To remedy this, I'm going to build a hybrid light scrubber. Hybrid in that it partially runs off of pure sunlight from dawn to dusk, but then timers will turn on supplemental light to round out 18 hours when it's dark outside.
Project #3
My 210 gallon FW has a fairly heavy bio load since I use it to grow out brood stock. I'm going to build a scrubber for it that will be the only filtration on the tank.
Pics and test readings as soon as I get each built.
Welcome to the thread. Yes a two-screen setup is more stable, since you clean one screen per week. Just make sure to double the screen size since the lights in the middle only light up one side of the screens. Best case is if you put lights on the outsides two.
Your indoor/outdoor version can use a mirror/foil on the backside during sun times, so as to light both sides.
For your 210, really oversize the screen (at least 2X, better 3X), and put your most powerful lights on this one.
Your indoor/outdoor version can use a mirror/foil on the backside during sun times, so as to light both sides.
For your 210, really oversize the screen (at least 2X, better 3X), and put your most powerful lights on this one.
The horrible state of the 40B before installing scrubber. I'll post some pics of the old sump configuration and new sump configuration with scrubber installed once I build it. I'm not going to remove any of the algae from the tank. It will be up to the scrubber to remove it. A true test if I ever saw one for sure. I haven't done anything with this tank for months because I gave up on the war with the algae. That's why there's very little live rock in the tank. I wasn't going to add new rock to a problem tank.
I'll bet you measure low N and P. I say that because you have coralline growing (which needs low P), and you have a lot of hair algae, which is consuming the P.
Yes the scrubber will slowly remove the nuisance hair. The more light, and the nearer the light to the screen, then the faster it will happen. Don't forget to post scrubber/screen/light/flow pics.
Yes the scrubber will slowly remove the nuisance hair. The more light, and the nearer the light to the screen, then the faster it will happen. Don't forget to post scrubber/screen/light/flow pics.
Here I found this guy here I was going to try it for my refugiumbasslover34;2297157; said:
Why LEDs? - HomeGrownLights.com but now for this great idea.
Update: CFL Bulb Lifetime
One of the CFL bucket scrubbers that I was testing began growing less and less algae, starting when it was about three months old. After five months, most growth had stopped. I did not think it could be the CFL bulbs because they looked fine, and they are supposed to last for years. But apparently this does not apply to algae growth, because after replacing the bulbs with new ones, growth immediately started again. These bulbs are cheap, so maybe a three-month replacement schedule should be followed.
One of the CFL bucket scrubbers that I was testing began growing less and less algae, starting when it was about three months old. After five months, most growth had stopped. I did not think it could be the CFL bulbs because they looked fine, and they are supposed to last for years. But apparently this does not apply to algae growth, because after replacing the bulbs with new ones, growth immediately started again. These bulbs are cheap, so maybe a three-month replacement schedule should be followed.
Several folks commented that they liked the hand-built nano-scrubber that Nitschke65 on the SWF site built for his Aquapod-type tank:
It looks bought-off-the-shelf. And several folks have asked how to put a scrubber on their own nano's, without resorting to building an external one. Problem is, of course, that Aquapod-type nano's are the most difficult to fit things into. So until someone manufactures some type of nano-scrubber like Nitschke65 built (G3 or otherwise), Nitschke has said that's he'll make custom scrubbers for other folk's nano's:
"I won't be able to get to work on any of them until mid January, but it's fine with me if you'd like to recommend me. My wife and I are gettting to leave on our 10th anniversary trip to London, so things around here have been pretty hectic. I'll be happy to make the trays and screens, and leave people to come up with their own lighting." He is in Wisconsin, USA.
So you can contact him if you are on that site, or PM me and I'll get it to him. I guess this will be his present to everyone
It looks bought-off-the-shelf. And several folks have asked how to put a scrubber on their own nano's, without resorting to building an external one. Problem is, of course, that Aquapod-type nano's are the most difficult to fit things into. So until someone manufactures some type of nano-scrubber like Nitschke65 built (G3 or otherwise), Nitschke has said that's he'll make custom scrubbers for other folk's nano's:
"I won't be able to get to work on any of them until mid January, but it's fine with me if you'd like to recommend me. My wife and I are gettting to leave on our 10th anniversary trip to London, so things around here have been pretty hectic. I'll be happy to make the trays and screens, and leave people to come up with their own lighting." He is in Wisconsin, USA.
So you can contact him if you are on that site, or PM me and I'll get it to him. I guess this will be his present to everyone
Update Of The Day: Cleanings/Scrapings
Cleanings are when you take the screen to the sink and run tap water over it as you use your fingers (not fingernails) to remove the loose stuff and wash it off. It is done everyweek, no matter what, even if you think your screen needs to "grow more first". On brand new screens, this stuff is usually a light brown slime, but it can be green slime, green hair, or even black tar-looking stuff. It's important, especially on the first cleaning, to leave some algae on the screen so it can grow back easily. It's also important to only clean ONE side per week (or one-half, if it's a one-sided screen). Cleaning it under running tap water kills the pods that will start to eat the algae (don't worry, there will be thousands more the next day).
Scrapings are sometimes needed later on, after your screen has grown a few months. You'll know if scrapings are needed: You'll try using your fingers, or even fingernails, but nothing will come off. Scraping is only needed every month or so, and of course on ONE side only (or one-half, if it's a one-sided screen). I use a razor blade to scrape, but any straight sharp metal object will work. Go back and forth with the scraper until the algae is removed all the way down to the screen. You shouldn't have to worry about leaving algae on the screen; this type of algae is tough enough that there will surely be some left. You may never need to scrape, however, which is fine. But even if you do need to scrape monthly, you'll still need to clean weekly.
Here is a video showing a cleaning and a scraping:
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypgNfJV6gBo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9vlUorbooo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo4mBWWuuQ#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQ4Nw0pYc#
Hi-res:
Part 1: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping1.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping2.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping3.mpg
Part 3: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping4.mpg
Cleanings are when you take the screen to the sink and run tap water over it as you use your fingers (not fingernails) to remove the loose stuff and wash it off. It is done everyweek, no matter what, even if you think your screen needs to "grow more first". On brand new screens, this stuff is usually a light brown slime, but it can be green slime, green hair, or even black tar-looking stuff. It's important, especially on the first cleaning, to leave some algae on the screen so it can grow back easily. It's also important to only clean ONE side per week (or one-half, if it's a one-sided screen). Cleaning it under running tap water kills the pods that will start to eat the algae (don't worry, there will be thousands more the next day).
Scrapings are sometimes needed later on, after your screen has grown a few months. You'll know if scrapings are needed: You'll try using your fingers, or even fingernails, but nothing will come off. Scraping is only needed every month or so, and of course on ONE side only (or one-half, if it's a one-sided screen). I use a razor blade to scrape, but any straight sharp metal object will work. Go back and forth with the scraper until the algae is removed all the way down to the screen. You shouldn't have to worry about leaving algae on the screen; this type of algae is tough enough that there will surely be some left. You may never need to scrape, however, which is fine. But even if you do need to scrape monthly, you'll still need to clean weekly.
Here is a video showing a cleaning and a scraping:
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypgNfJV6gBo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9vlUorbooo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo4mBWWuuQ#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQ4Nw0pYc#
Hi-res:
Part 1: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping1.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping2.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping3.mpg
Part 3: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping4.mpg
Madeley on the scrubber site has come up with a great plan for an in-sump dual-screen scrubber, that could either be manufactured from plastic, or (if you simplify it) made out of acrylic. So for you technically adept folks, here's his drawing, with my arrows and words added:
His drawing is similar to Dohn's on the MASA site:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/UserDohnOnMASA-2.jpg
...but simpler (Dohn's I believe was for HOB, so it's understandably more complex).
Operation: Madeley has it so it can be placed in a sump front-to-back (sump being sideways), and it will set on the rim; lights in the middle, screens on both sides through the slots in the horizontal water tray, and water fed in from the hole on the end which would thus be positioned at the back or front of the sump. If it's for a sump 12" front-to-back, then the lower section is probably 11" across, which makes the screen about 10" across. So if the screen is 10" tall, then it's 100 square inches, and lit on one side, which is good for a 50 gal tank per screen, or 100 gal tank total. Each 10" wide screen needs 10 X 35 = 350 gph flow, for a total of 700 gph. Lighting could either be two CFL's hung down the middle, or some type of two-sided T5HO (just think how powerful a row of ten 12" T5's would be. This could be an optional feature.)
To mold/manufacture out of plastic, here's what I'd change:
1. Water input-hole: Many sumps I've seen won't have room to route a tube/pipe along the back side of their sumps (in order to connect to that hole), and they'd prefer to not route it in from the front. I'd suggest a side or top connection.
2. The incoming 700 gph water, the way is is laid out, is going to be too strong when it hits that center piece. I'd use two separate holes, and let the user divide the water himself with a "Y" before the input. Also, if you make the two water pathways totally isolated, and if the user puts a valve on each water input, then he can keep the pump running on one screen while he turns off and cleans the other. This is a safety factor because some people forget to turn their pumps back on, and/or, they are feeding the scrubber from the overflow. Also, there would be a perceived advantage because "it never stops filtering, even when I'm cleaning it".
3. Screen slots: If the screen inserts through the water tray from the top, then how do you get it out when it's full? You can't pull it up through the slot when it's full. And if the screen inserts from the bottom, how do you push it up and get it through the slot when the screen is flexible?. What you could do is make the water tray removeable, so it just sets down in there. This way, the tray would lift up and bring the screen with it (would also make cleaning, and manufacturing, easier.) And, you'd want the tray to be in two pieces so you can remove one without needing to remove the other. This would work great with isolated water pathways.
4. Overflowing tray: If something real or imaginary blocks the water from going down the slot, the user needs to know that the water will simply overflow into the sump. This is easily done by lowering the outer walls a half inch or so, in the middle section, so water would spill over the edge.
5. Top heavy: With water in the top tray, and two hoses connected, and lights attached, the cener of gravity is going to be very high, and the unit could tip over. While you could fix this by making the unit sit lower into the sump, this would reduce screen area since more of the screen would be under water. A solution might be to attach weights (rock?) to the bottom.
6. Adjustable height: Due to the top-heavy problem, and the unknown height of water in the user's sump, and also due to manufacturing difficulties, it might be easier to eliminate the ledge (that sits on the sump's rim) entirely, and replace it with an adjustable "lip" or "tab". This adjustable piece would be on both ends, and could be moved up or down so that the screen's bottom could be positioned just at the water's surface. If top-heavy, the unit could be lowered (albeit putting the screen into the water.)
An alternate solution to the height issue is to have no lip at all (permanent or adjustable), and instead use some type of legs that go down to the bottom of the sump. This would make the top part of the unit smaller (does not need to set on sump rim), but would not reduce the lighting or screen areas. For balance in top-heavy situations, the legs could be weighted (they could be weights themselves), or they could extend out at an angle like a tripod.
To have it built from acrylic instead (by hand), here's what I'd change:
The above points still apply (water input on top or side, dual inputs, separate water pathways, removeable water trays, lowered-wall to handle overflow). The issue with acrylic is to use as many long straight pieces as possible, and to avoid any internal cross sections. This pretty much eliminates the lip that would sit on the sump's rim, so something would have to hold the unit up; either an adjustable lip on the sides, or legs on the bottom. An easy solution might be to just extend the outer sheets of acrylic (the ones parallel to the screen) all the way to the bottom, and just have slots in them (like vertical window blinds) for water to get through. If made for anyone other than yourself (in which case you would not know the height needed), the user could just cut off the excess acrylic in order to set the height properly.
The acrylic design is very simple; just four vertical acrylic sheets (same size), with two end pieces, a drop-in water tray on both sides, and a water hole on both sides.
.
His drawing is similar to Dohn's on the MASA site:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/UserDohnOnMASA-2.jpg
...but simpler (Dohn's I believe was for HOB, so it's understandably more complex).
Operation: Madeley has it so it can be placed in a sump front-to-back (sump being sideways), and it will set on the rim; lights in the middle, screens on both sides through the slots in the horizontal water tray, and water fed in from the hole on the end which would thus be positioned at the back or front of the sump. If it's for a sump 12" front-to-back, then the lower section is probably 11" across, which makes the screen about 10" across. So if the screen is 10" tall, then it's 100 square inches, and lit on one side, which is good for a 50 gal tank per screen, or 100 gal tank total. Each 10" wide screen needs 10 X 35 = 350 gph flow, for a total of 700 gph. Lighting could either be two CFL's hung down the middle, or some type of two-sided T5HO (just think how powerful a row of ten 12" T5's would be. This could be an optional feature.)
To mold/manufacture out of plastic, here's what I'd change:
1. Water input-hole: Many sumps I've seen won't have room to route a tube/pipe along the back side of their sumps (in order to connect to that hole), and they'd prefer to not route it in from the front. I'd suggest a side or top connection.
2. The incoming 700 gph water, the way is is laid out, is going to be too strong when it hits that center piece. I'd use two separate holes, and let the user divide the water himself with a "Y" before the input. Also, if you make the two water pathways totally isolated, and if the user puts a valve on each water input, then he can keep the pump running on one screen while he turns off and cleans the other. This is a safety factor because some people forget to turn their pumps back on, and/or, they are feeding the scrubber from the overflow. Also, there would be a perceived advantage because "it never stops filtering, even when I'm cleaning it".
3. Screen slots: If the screen inserts through the water tray from the top, then how do you get it out when it's full? You can't pull it up through the slot when it's full. And if the screen inserts from the bottom, how do you push it up and get it through the slot when the screen is flexible?. What you could do is make the water tray removeable, so it just sets down in there. This way, the tray would lift up and bring the screen with it (would also make cleaning, and manufacturing, easier.) And, you'd want the tray to be in two pieces so you can remove one without needing to remove the other. This would work great with isolated water pathways.
4. Overflowing tray: If something real or imaginary blocks the water from going down the slot, the user needs to know that the water will simply overflow into the sump. This is easily done by lowering the outer walls a half inch or so, in the middle section, so water would spill over the edge.
5. Top heavy: With water in the top tray, and two hoses connected, and lights attached, the cener of gravity is going to be very high, and the unit could tip over. While you could fix this by making the unit sit lower into the sump, this would reduce screen area since more of the screen would be under water. A solution might be to attach weights (rock?) to the bottom.
6. Adjustable height: Due to the top-heavy problem, and the unknown height of water in the user's sump, and also due to manufacturing difficulties, it might be easier to eliminate the ledge (that sits on the sump's rim) entirely, and replace it with an adjustable "lip" or "tab". This adjustable piece would be on both ends, and could be moved up or down so that the screen's bottom could be positioned just at the water's surface. If top-heavy, the unit could be lowered (albeit putting the screen into the water.)
An alternate solution to the height issue is to have no lip at all (permanent or adjustable), and instead use some type of legs that go down to the bottom of the sump. This would make the top part of the unit smaller (does not need to set on sump rim), but would not reduce the lighting or screen areas. For balance in top-heavy situations, the legs could be weighted (they could be weights themselves), or they could extend out at an angle like a tripod.
To have it built from acrylic instead (by hand), here's what I'd change:
The above points still apply (water input on top or side, dual inputs, separate water pathways, removeable water trays, lowered-wall to handle overflow). The issue with acrylic is to use as many long straight pieces as possible, and to avoid any internal cross sections. This pretty much eliminates the lip that would sit on the sump's rim, so something would have to hold the unit up; either an adjustable lip on the sides, or legs on the bottom. An easy solution might be to just extend the outer sheets of acrylic (the ones parallel to the screen) all the way to the bottom, and just have slots in them (like vertical window blinds) for water to get through. If made for anyone other than yourself (in which case you would not know the height needed), the user could just cut off the excess acrylic in order to set the height properly.
The acrylic design is very simple; just four vertical acrylic sheets (same size), with two end pieces, a drop-in water tray on both sides, and a water hole on both sides.
.
