Agree with Vik, that's a paroon. Here's how shortbodied MGC looks like, taken from a thai seller stock photo. See the difference on the mouth shape, dorsal shape & anal fin color.
Mekong catfish or not
- Thread starter Jiyowel
- Start date
Thank you much for this brother.
GiantFishKeeper101
GFK101: The piebald shark have been discussed before by Thai experts on fb, it is indeed a MGC.
TBTB: You and they may be right. I had my doubts too, even based on the mouth shape of that striking piebald alone.
GFK101: Since MGC are native to Thai, so I trust them. Even without experts' help, I saw these fish on daily basis on fb, from deformed short bodied to hauling a giant broodstock to catching a wild giant. Over time, you get the gist how to tell em apart, it's like me differentiate between Tor & Neolissochilus.
TBTB: I understand. I have not had this experience like you have seeing all these other MGC photos and videos and reading more info... and if anything I tend to take your words very seriously because you are a great artist and you can't be a great artist without a sharp eye keen on details of a looks of an object.
GFK101: Fish farms do experimenting on hybridisation between species but not MGC. Why? Fish food & entertainment purposes, hybrid will have unexpected results. The original have great growth, great size & demand for it are high. Why hybridising something that already perfect? You wanna make business, why risk it on a hybrid?
TBTB: Good question but I thought it was a well known fact that they experiment with MGC hybridization. Proponents of hybridization always cite "hybrid vigor", which arises from fish being largely sterile and hence redirecting the energy toward bodily growth instead of procreating organs. If they believe that they can make a hybrid that will grow faster than MGC, they will most assuredly try. That's why. Perfect? No such thing. From 3" to 3' in one month. That'd be close to perfect for them. Plus they claim reduced susceptibility to illness in hybrids and little to no risk to wild as a result of unintentional accidental releases.
GFK101: That's your opinion, I can't change your mind. I've experienced it first hand & through others, guided by the experts. But if you can't trust me, then you have trust issues. I've told you in my old post how to differentiate MGC, but if you still can't see the difference then I can't help you... or that's my fault on explaining things with bad english ?
TBTB: Sure you can change my mind. It's not a matter of trust but of proof. We are not discussing our feelings here but the science of taxonomy as far as we the laymen can manage. You seem to know and have seen much more on the subject than I. Be a pioneer, like you had tried with the piraiba alleged morphs / species, ... take your time and lay out your case with visuals, links, your excellent drawings, etc. In your own thread. If you wanted to, you could do it in my thread: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...s-how-to-id-mekong-giant-catfish-juvi.584508/ IDK what old post of yours you are referring to. As you said yourself, you used to be fuzzy on the subject as opposed to now, so that old post perhaps is obsolete anyway. And your English is quite adequate, for me anyway.
GFK101: Have you considered it died or donated?
TBTB: Yes I have, which is why I said I'd like to see even a few, several, or IDK, 10 specimen. I don't expect dozens or a hundred, albeit, it goes without saying that'd be better. But I want to see normal MGC, not interested in investing my time studying short bodies, hybrids, or any other.
GFK101: but most thai hobbyist that have enough space for a MGC have full grown specimen in their pond. You can search em on fb. Vik, please make a fb account, there's so much thing you're missing out on fb lol. Add me, I'll show you.
TBTB: Thank you for this. I'd love to see that and read how they established their ID, efforts, proof, etc. You can link the proper FB pages here, can't you? I have a FB account but no time to use it except for some occasional special purpose, like this one would warrant it. But I'd much rather we do it here for our community to see, participate, help, and learn from. Yet, if you'd only do it on FB, give me your FB name and I will add you and you can "show me", albeit my FB user proficiency level is probably that of a 5 year old.
GiantFishKeeper101
GFK101: The piebald shark have been discussed before by Thai experts on fb, it is indeed a MGC.
TBTB: You and they may be right. I had my doubts too, even based on the mouth shape of that striking piebald alone.
GFK101: Since MGC are native to Thai, so I trust them. Even without experts' help, I saw these fish on daily basis on fb, from deformed short bodied to hauling a giant broodstock to catching a wild giant. Over time, you get the gist how to tell em apart, it's like me differentiate between Tor & Neolissochilus.
TBTB: I understand. I have not had this experience like you have seeing all these other MGC photos and videos and reading more info... and if anything I tend to take your words very seriously because you are a great artist and you can't be a great artist without a sharp eye keen on details of a looks of an object.
GFK101: Fish farms do experimenting on hybridisation between species but not MGC. Why? Fish food & entertainment purposes, hybrid will have unexpected results. The original have great growth, great size & demand for it are high. Why hybridising something that already perfect? You wanna make business, why risk it on a hybrid?
TBTB: Good question but I thought it was a well known fact that they experiment with MGC hybridization. Proponents of hybridization always cite "hybrid vigor", which arises from fish being largely sterile and hence redirecting the energy toward bodily growth instead of procreating organs. If they believe that they can make a hybrid that will grow faster than MGC, they will most assuredly try. That's why. Perfect? No such thing. From 3" to 3' in one month. That'd be close to perfect for them. Plus they claim reduced susceptibility to illness in hybrids and little to no risk to wild as a result of unintentional accidental releases.
GFK101: That's your opinion, I can't change your mind. I've experienced it first hand & through others, guided by the experts. But if you can't trust me, then you have trust issues. I've told you in my old post how to differentiate MGC, but if you still can't see the difference then I can't help you... or that's my fault on explaining things with bad english ?
TBTB: Sure you can change my mind. It's not a matter of trust but of proof. We are not discussing our feelings here but the science of taxonomy as far as we the laymen can manage. You seem to know and have seen much more on the subject than I. Be a pioneer, like you had tried with the piraiba alleged morphs / species, ... take your time and lay out your case with visuals, links, your excellent drawings, etc. In your own thread. If you wanted to, you could do it in my thread: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...s-how-to-id-mekong-giant-catfish-juvi.584508/ IDK what old post of yours you are referring to. As you said yourself, you used to be fuzzy on the subject as opposed to now, so that old post perhaps is obsolete anyway. And your English is quite adequate, for me anyway.
GFK101: Have you considered it died or donated?
TBTB: Yes I have, which is why I said I'd like to see even a few, several, or IDK, 10 specimen. I don't expect dozens or a hundred, albeit, it goes without saying that'd be better. But I want to see normal MGC, not interested in investing my time studying short bodies, hybrids, or any other.
GFK101: but most thai hobbyist that have enough space for a MGC have full grown specimen in their pond. You can search em on fb. Vik, please make a fb account, there's so much thing you're missing out on fb lol. Add me, I'll show you.
TBTB: Thank you for this. I'd love to see that and read how they established their ID, efforts, proof, etc. You can link the proper FB pages here, can't you? I have a FB account but no time to use it except for some occasional special purpose, like this one would warrant it. But I'd much rather we do it here for our community to see, participate, help, and learn from. Yet, if you'd only do it on FB, give me your FB name and I will add you and you can "show me", albeit my FB user proficiency level is probably that of a 5 year old.
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Guys look at this link I found in natgeo https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/animals/fish/m/mekong-giant-catfish
Sorry, I'm not active in MFK like I used to be. Didn't get notifications. Here it is https://www.facebook.com/marlboro.mat.7
GiantFishKeeper101
so you won't do this, will you? Just checking for clarity, that you have not missed it and indeed saw it but won't do it.
You can refer my old post https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/found-mekong-giant-catfish.700708/#post-7897086 for MGC reference. What I had are the real deal, I know my sources. As I said before, juvenile MGC upper body looks like a thumb with square mouth shape, that's how I differentiate them between other Pangasid species
Thank you so much for the link and the wonderful thread of yours and for your experiments! I found it very interesting even riveting to re-read. I've read every post and if I were to surmise, you are not sure yourself if what you had were genuine species of MGC and they could have been the hybrids with the IDS. Bottom line is such it appears to me after I read it all carefully.
On the other hand, I do see the differences you point out:
(1) thumb cranial profile, pronounced shoulder
(2) shorter, wider, stubier head
(3) square mouth, bigger than IDS
(4) lower sitting eyes vs IDS
(5) different dorsal fin shape
(6) different caudal fin shape
It's frustrating that we, at least I, cannot be sure your juvies were the real genuine MGC.
The dark adults from the River Safari tank look like the real deal to me.
I wish you could keep yours longer.
...
If you believe a tour through FB will help me / us along this endeavor, I will add you as my friend and you can show me around the MGC on FB then, if you still will.
Thank you so much again for everything on MGC that you have been sharing with us.
Friend of mine used to celebrate his birthday at Bungsamran Lake in Bangkok. Rent a villa, barbecue on the deck, good fun. He'd have a guy preparing the fishing gear, throw it in and we'd take turns taking fish out. Mostly Mekong Giant Catfish and ChaoPraya Catfish. anywhere between 20 and 50 kg.. Bring it in, make a picture and then put it back again.
Got a picture at home of that. Not sure if it's a CP or MG..but sure very nice fish..Will get a copy if I remember tonight.
Got a picture at home of that. Not sure if it's a CP or MG..but sure very nice fish..Will get a copy if I remember tonight.
