Paratheraps, Cichlasoma, Vieja.....

[buddha1200]

unless you have them direct from the wild there ph that they where born or raised in is usaually around 7.0 to 7.5.(if they are wild caught you might have to copy there ph that they are use too,but captive bred usually thrive in the ph they are accustomed too. And i doubt anyone would be able to copy thier exact wild water conditions in a home aqaurium,we can get close but not exact. I have raised vieja and paratheraps for years and have never had on thrive at 8.5(kept a few in a tank that was setup for africans,just put them in the same setup after the african were sold and they did ok but never thrived)when i learned more about them and put them in my tank with my oscars(ph7.5)the bred for me and continue to breed to this day. But this is just my experience. I have met alot of people in the hobby from breeders to people who raise show fish and i have never meet anyone who keeps them above 8.

 

[BC in SK]

there ph that they where born or raised in is usaually around 7.0 to 7.5.(

How do you figure that? Lot's and lot's of places through out North America have water in the ph 8's. If they are locally bred or raised or even just coming from the local pet shop they are generally coming from local tap water conditions.

The water out of my tap varies from ph 8.0 to 8.4, depending on the time of year. No problem breeding blackbelts (or any other CA for that matter) and have them thrive in local water conditions. Lots of people breed Veija/Paratheraps under local water conditions ---- there is definately no benefit derived from altering our water to house CA, as that is often similar to what the fish originates from. Maybe you have never met anyone that keeps their Veija/Paratheraps species in water above pH 8.0 but I supose that must be because it's not your local water conditions (?).

 

[Aquamojo]

I haven't checked the pH or the water hardness of any of my tanks in maybe a decade. When we collected in Honduras and Mexico we did take readings at the collection locales. It was amazing the huge swing from one area to the next.

 

[koltsixx]

How do you figure that? Lot's and lot's of places through out North America have water in the ph 8's. If they are locally bred or raised or even just coming from the local pet shop they are generally coming from local tap water conditions.

The water out of my tap varies from ph 8.0 to 8.4, depending on the time of year. No problem breeding blackbelts (or any other CA for that matter) and have them thrive in local water conditions. Lots of people breed Veija/Paratheraps under local water conditions ---- there is definately no benefit derived from altering our water to house CA, as that is often similar to what the fish originates from. Maybe you have never met anyone that keeps their Veija/Paratheraps species in water above pH 8.0 but I supose that must be because it's not your local water conditions (?).

Ignoring the fact your statements are totally irrelevant to this thread, the info for the ph values I used are from Hans A. Baensch a prominent name in our hobby and wild collector. The Angostura Resevoir where these fish were first collected during the dry season the water values were 30 degrees celsius, 10 dGH, 12 KH and a ph of 7.5. So yes the parameters were from the wild collection point. Though it's irrevelant because I was speaking of general conditions that home aquarists can commonly use. A 7.0 ph is fairly common tap value for many domestic water systems due to the cleaning regime used on the water. So I was stating a comfortable and easily acheived ph level the fish would be comfortable in. If you read the first post it would have been clear this is general info for a newbie to the genus could use for basic husbandry. My attempt was merely to provide general info. not debate wild water parameters. Especially since it's un-important to this thread when this genus thrives well in the ph values mentioned. Basically what could have been a good thread to introduce the genus has been derailed for useless debate about points that have nothing to do with this thread.

 

[koltsixx]

Also after doing further research there are many documented incidents recorded by different researcher's stating the ph levels vary widely. So on top of the statements being irrelevant they're also in correct.

Journal of the American Mosquito Control Association

Larvae were collected
in water with wide pH values ranging from
4.5 to 8.8. Almost half of the sites had an acidic to
neutral pH, with values ranging between 6.02 and
7.0. Only one larval site had a pH as low as 4.5
(Huachipa, Peru). The other half of the sites had an
alkaline pH, including 16 habitats with a pH below
8.0 and 9 sites with a pH between 8.0 and 8.8.

In order to help prevent the spread of disease mosquito populations and the water parameters the larvae are found in are monitored and these water systems are the same collection area's where Zonatusare found and vary greatly. As stated above half the sites had ph from 6-7 and the other half from 8-9 almost.

 

[farawayinn]

Kolt - Forget the meaningless water parameter nitpicking by others who have nothing useful to add to the actual topic. Keep the thread alive as it was intended please. It was very informative before all the arcane BS.
Oliver

 

[Gruff Master]

Keep the thread going, Kolstix. The information that has already been given and what may potentially come is worth the effort. I appreciate the work that you have done to gather this information on these species. Aquamojo has loads of experience. Hopefully he'll be nice enough to post a little more info on some other cichlids that are relevant to this thread. Good job, man.

 

[koltsixx]

I created a new thread trying the profile thing again. Hopefully this time it won't be derailed. I asked anyone wanting to comment to please wait till I finished the profiles and if they had anything to add to pm me so I can see if I can edit the posts. It'll make the thread more fluid and easy to follow.

 

[koltsixx]

Kolt - Forget the meaningless water parameter nitpicking by others who have nothing useful to add to the actual topic. Keep the thread alive as it was intended please. It was very informative before all the arcane BS.
Oliver

Keep the thread going, Kolstix. The information that has already been given and what may potentially come is worth the effort. I appreciate the work that you have done to gather this information on these species. Aquamojo has loads of experience. Hopefully he'll be nice enough to post a little more info on some other cichlids that are relevant to this thread. Good job, man.

Thanx guys for the support I hope it's helpful to those wanting to be educated on this beautiful genus.

 

[nutty]

Just to add, the link to the Practical fish keeping headline, sensationalise the topic of the classification of Vieja. Nothing has been finalised with the re- assignments of Vieja, the paper is more suggestions/opinions, which i personaly don't find very convincing. Some of the re-assignements come a litle odd. If you can i suggest you read the paper and come to your own conclusions. I certainly won't be changing my viewpoint any time soon.

phylogenetic tree.

With your profiles, i would suggest to keep to both Paratheraps and Vieja as not to confuse the topic.

Regards,

Lee.