perch suffering from swim bladder issues

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shern

shern

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Oct 17, 2023
318
168
51
Have you tested your water?
Yes
If yes, what is your ammonia?
0
If yes, what is your nitrite?
p
If yes, what is your nitrate?
20
If I did not test my water...
  1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.
Do you do water changes?
Yes
What percentage of water do you change?
61-70%
How frequently do you change your water?
Every two weeks
If I do not change my water...
  1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.
greetings all, recently my chinese whiteheadi perch has fallen ill and it’s expanded a bit out of my range of abilities.

i noticed lethargic behavior around 5 days ago and immediately did a 80% WC as i found some ammonia, low ph some and excess nitrate in my testing. the following days the parameters went back to 0 am 0 nitrite 20 nitrate and 7.2 ph.

however i found that he had not gotten better and still had been laying on the floor.

he seemed still responsive to my actions and ate a small piece of shrimp over the second and third days

on the 4th day i noticed still no progress in recovery so i did a epsom salt bath to attempt to clear the stomach and digestives system

i still noticed no change and no waste was expelled during the 30 minute salt bath

i am on the fifth day now thinking about using gram negative treatments like kanamycin to help him further but i am troubled with the combination of magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) along with kanamycin sulfate (kanaplex) as both would harm the internal organs of the fish quite badly.

should i wait longer to administer the kanamycin in fear of the effects of the salt bath or should i bite the bullet and give kanamycin barely a day after the epsom salt bath.

i would also like to mention that i noticed no signs of pineconing or bloating on the fish

the perch is also relatively small at around 3-4 inches so juvenile

please let me know if you have any alternative solutions or thoughts on the kanamycin
 
i will attach photos after i get back from work
 
What are you feeding? Mainly shrimp? What are your temps? White stringy poop? Any tankmates? I’d hold off on the kanamycin as not knowing what is being treated. Mg sulfate can continue but if no bloat then I’d stop it too. Maybe increase your water changes to weekly. Consider levamisole or even metronidazole.
 
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kno4te said:
What are you feeding? Mainly shrimp? What are your temps? White stringy poop? Any tankmates? I’d hold off on the kanamycin as not knowing what is being treated. Mg sulfate can continue but if no bloat then I’d stop it too. Maybe increase your water changes to weekly. Consider levamisole or even metronidazole.
Click to expand...
yes i feed only shrimp to the baby perch

temps are 82-84

he’s in a 250g but he’s repeated in his own compartment by a egg crate wall, he’s by himself

haven’t noticed any waste from him at all, i might just not be perceptive enough

exactly my thought, double dosing with kanamycin and epsom salt bath seems excessive but he’s been unwell for a while

i will stop giving him epsom salt baths, he’s only had one so far

i do weekly wc usually but i skipped last week due to work so parameters possibly could have raised a bit more than they should’ve due to my negligence

any good sources of met and leva you could recommend?

i’ve got maracyn 2 and praziq as well but im not sure if i should be treating him with it
 
Couple of things come to mind. Could be from a shrimp diet related to thiaminase. Solution is to use the shrimp as a snack and give it a varied diet. I stuff pieces of broken massivore in tilapia and feed one of my fish cause it’s picky. Won’t take anything else so I have to hide it. But atleast it’s getting more in its diet. Don’t know far it’s been or if it’ll get an appetite.

Lower the temps to 78-80. Some opportunistic fungus/bacteria like and thrive in higher temps.

Could be viral/internal parasite. Since it’s wild I’d lean toward that direction, IP. Maybe from other fish in the tank although no direct contact. Would dose some levamisole to the tank for now.

Try and get Fritz expel-P. I’d go this route and getting the fish to eat a well rounded pellet. Just IMO.
 
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kno4te said:
Couple of things come to mind. Could be from a shrimp diet related to thiaminase. Solution is to use the shrimp as a snack and give it a varied diet. I stuff pieces of broken massivore in tilapia and feed one of my fish cause it’s picky. Won’t take anything else so I have to hide it. But atleast it’s getting more in its diet. Don’t know far it’s been or if it’ll get an appetite.

Lower the temps to 78-80. Some opportunistic fungus/bacteria like and thrive in higher temps.

Could be viral/internal parasite. Since it’s wild I’d lean toward that direction, IP. Maybe from other fish in the tank although no direct contact. Would dose some levamisole to the tank for now.

Try and get Fritz expel-P. I’d go this route and getting the fish to eat a well rounded pellet. Just IMO.
Click to expand...
i do understand the risks of thiaminase poisoning, in truth I figured that you need so much of this enzyme to be an issue, that being said I do regularly put massivores or other pellets either in the shrimp for picky fish haven't weaned off yet or just pellets by base. in the perch's case as he's is still very young and not accepting the small pellet size, I have no choice but shrimp atm until I get him on pellets or he grows a bit larger.

i also use some protein supplements for my fish's diets

got it, will lower temps rn

that's what I was assuming after both mg su didn't work and he didn't show normal bloat symptoms

ill see if I can get my hands on fritz expel-p, do you know the effects of it? I've never used it or seen it cross referenced in any of the medicine logs I use; ie is harmful when double dosed in other meds or basic aquarium salt?
 
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ive also got praiquental on hand as a parasite remover, does it work similarly to expel-p?

i might be able to dose it first as a tank sweeper before I get my hands on expel-p
 
also noticed some white on his cheeks and gill
IMG_8744.jpeg
 
shern said:
ive also got praiquental on hand as a parasite remover, does it work similarly to expel-p?

i might be able to dose it first as a tank sweeper before I get my hands on expel-p
Click to expand...
Can try it prazipro just in case it’s flukes.
shern said:
i do understand the risks of thiaminase poisoning, in truth I figured that you need so much of this enzyme to be an issue, that being said I do regularly put massivores or other pellets either in the shrimp for picky fish haven't weaned off yet or just pellets by base. in the perch's case as he's is still very young and not accepting the small pellet size, I have no choice but shrimp atm until I get him on pellets or he grows a bit larger.

i also use some protein supplements for my fish's diets

got it, will lower temps rn

that's what I was assuming after both mg su didn't work and he didn't show normal bloat symptoms

ill see if I can get my hands on fritz expel-p, do you know the effects of it? I've never used it or seen it cross referenced in any of the medicine logs I use; ie is harmful when double dosed in other meds or basic aquarium salt?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t double dose it. It’s based of off concentration in the tank. Fritz makes it easy to dose. The levamisole powder from eBay were a pain to dose. Can add salt, 1 tsp per g.
shern said:
i do understand the risks of thiaminase poisoning, in truth I figured that you need so much of this enzyme to be an issue, that being said I do regularly put massivores or other pellets either in the shrimp for picky fish haven't weaned off yet or just pellets by base. in the perch's case as he's is still very young and not accepting the small pellet size, I have no choice but shrimp atm until I get him on pellets or he grows a bit larger.

i also use some protein supplements for my fish's diets

got it, will lower temps rn

that's what I was assuming after both mg su didn't work and he didn't show normal bloat symptoms

ill see if I can get my hands on fritz expel-p, do you know the effects of it? I've never used it or seen it cross referenced in any of the medicine logs I use; ie is harmful when double dosed in other meds or basic aquarium salt?
Click to expand...
Gotcha…no choice then no choice. Do what you can not. Who knows state of the fish before you got it.
 
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