Pleco for goldfish tank
- Thread starter starlit_rain
- Start date
i think the hillstream loaches need cleaner water and more current than a goldfish tank would provide. their native habitats are very high-oxygen, almost whitewater rivers and streams.
if you get a pleco and don't feed it by expecting it to live on leftover goldfish food and algae, it will probably go after your goldfish out of sheer hunger. a well-fed plec shouldn't suck on tankmates. one exception is my rubberlip pleco - i had an emergency with my goldfish tank and had to put my black moor into the main tank. the rubberlip is apparently very very territorial and took off about 70% of the goldie's fins overnight. i don't know if all rubberlips are like that though.
if you get a pleco and don't feed it by expecting it to live on leftover goldfish food and algae, it will probably go after your goldfish out of sheer hunger. a well-fed plec shouldn't suck on tankmates. one exception is my rubberlip pleco - i had an emergency with my goldfish tank and had to put my black moor into the main tank. the rubberlip is apparently very very territorial and took off about 70% of the goldie's fins overnight. i don't know if all rubberlips are like that though.
None of my balitoresque loach species live in current and it is by no means necessary. Clean, oxygenated water is a must, however. Your best bet in room temp waters is some sort of tankbred ancistrus domesticus morph. As stated, many chaetostoma/ancistrus species can be equally sensitive, though--it requires precise judgement in regards to the species. Also, of the balitorids that I know, many of the more common species are clearwater dwellers.
"I can see how it would make sense but I'm not sure I buy it. They all look different yes but their physiology is the same IMO."
By definition, you are already partially incorrect. That is, by being so disctintly mutated, some aspects of their physiological existence (i.e. deformed and miniaturized organ function, muscle patterns given differing caudal growths, and don't even get my started on those eye deformations)are affected in different manners. Just because they are theoretically the same species does not indicate that they are physiologically identical. Fancies are not suited for colder weather. This is pretty well accepted, and any responsible pond owner does not leave a, say, lionhead out for the winter.
In an unrelated manner, allow me to phrase it thusly; a certain subspp of african elephants is suited for a nomadic desert lifestyle. Interchanging said elephant with a large plains male of the same "species" does not ensure that the latter will survive (and it probably wont).
"I can see how it would make sense but I'm not sure I buy it. They all look different yes but their physiology is the same IMO."
By definition, you are already partially incorrect. That is, by being so disctintly mutated, some aspects of their physiological existence (i.e. deformed and miniaturized organ function, muscle patterns given differing caudal growths, and don't even get my started on those eye deformations)are affected in different manners. Just because they are theoretically the same species does not indicate that they are physiologically identical. Fancies are not suited for colder weather. This is pretty well accepted, and any responsible pond owner does not leave a, say, lionhead out for the winter.
In an unrelated manner, allow me to phrase it thusly; a certain subspp of african elephants is suited for a nomadic desert lifestyle. Interchanging said elephant with a large plains male of the same "species" does not ensure that the latter will survive (and it probably wont).
COL;1147204; said:
You're right about the physiology and it was silly of me not to realize that when I typed it, they aren't the same. You make a lot of strong points but I still don't think simply by breeding the fish indoors it's going to loose it's ability to survive cold weather. I have heard of fany goldfish overwintering before outdoors and even living in the wild (no doubt that's rare). Everyone I see who promotes the "fancy goldfish cannot survive outdoors rule" are also the same people who suggest 20g minimum for a common goldfish that can reach about 2' in length. Besides, what I was really talking about is if commons can survive warm water and I know that for a fact they can.
Perhaps, but I would say a more likely cause of the characteristic inability for most fancy breeds to overwinter is not because they've been conditioned for indoor life, but rather because they've been mutated to such a degree that much of their wiring does not run at full efficiency, contributing to rapid metabolic failure in trying colder conditions, but this is all just conjecture. That being said, I have never heard of anyone overwintering a fancy in any ice-prone region.
Also, you're right, most pterygoplichthyiids are fairly hardy and can survive under large temperature gradient regions.
Also, you're right, most pterygoplichthyiids are fairly hardy and can survive under large temperature gradient regions.
What type of goldfish are in question here?
Rubberlips will go for goldfish, ask my one-eyed ranchu. Normal bodied goldfish will be fine with more types of plecos than round-bodied and fantail varieties. The slower round-bodieds make an easy snack for plecos.
Goldfish can definitely do quite well in warmer temps. They are considered a coldwater or coolwater fish because they can tolerate it and customarily have been kept as such. Normal bodied goldfish can usually tolerate low temps as long as the water is liquid. Fancier varieties are less hardy about temp and should not be kept below 50F, some will say 60F (possibly depending on the variety). There are people who have lucked out (or rather their goldfish have) who have kept them out year round in temps well below that. These are exceptions and not the guide to follow. Fancier varieties are less tolerant of adverse conditions in general (water quality, pH, etc.) temperature included. So it is not just that they are more sensitive to temp, they are more sensitive in general. If you ask breeders and keepers you will find that many types of animals that are 'highly bred' (drastically changed from their natural form by selective breeding) they are more sensitive.
Rubberlips will go for goldfish, ask my one-eyed ranchu. Normal bodied goldfish will be fine with more types of plecos than round-bodied and fantail varieties. The slower round-bodieds make an easy snack for plecos.
Goldfish can definitely do quite well in warmer temps. They are considered a coldwater or coolwater fish because they can tolerate it and customarily have been kept as such. Normal bodied goldfish can usually tolerate low temps as long as the water is liquid. Fancier varieties are less hardy about temp and should not be kept below 50F, some will say 60F (possibly depending on the variety). There are people who have lucked out (or rather their goldfish have) who have kept them out year round in temps well below that. These are exceptions and not the guide to follow. Fancier varieties are less tolerant of adverse conditions in general (water quality, pH, etc.) temperature included. So it is not just that they are more sensitive to temp, they are more sensitive in general. If you ask breeders and keepers you will find that many types of animals that are 'highly bred' (drastically changed from their natural form by selective breeding) they are more sensitive.
My goldfish live in a room temperature tank, and if I did ever decide to pond them, it would most certainly be an INDOOR pond!!
I'm very much attached to all of OUR goldfish (my fiance and I each have our own, they just share MY tanks!! lol) and would never consider tossing my babies out to the elements, that including predatory critters that find goldfish a rare delicassie!!
Anyways, my goldfish are healthy with bright colors, and never have any of the "common" problems that fancies and commons usually have. They share the same food, the same napping spots, and never harass each other, except every once in a while, Brian's male pool comet will have an obsession with his female fantail's behind.
I'm very much attached to all of OUR goldfish (my fiance and I each have our own, they just share MY tanks!! lol) and would never consider tossing my babies out to the elements, that including predatory critters that find goldfish a rare delicassie!!
Anyways, my goldfish are healthy with bright colors, and never have any of the "common" problems that fancies and commons usually have. They share the same food, the same napping spots, and never harass each other, except every once in a while, Brian's male pool comet will have an obsession with his female fantail's behind.
I agree with COL.
Anyways, with the hillstream loach thing, they would only thrive if they were keep in a very well oxygenated and strongly filtered tank with water that was kept exceptionally clean, unlike goldfish, these loaches are quite specialised care/habitat fish and are really not tolerant at all of water quality problems or lots of organic waste like poop in their tanks (which goldfish create a lot of).
Its also best to have a constant supply of algae for them too, because they are difficult fish to move onto prepared foods (some never do).
The main problem i can see with keeping hillstream loaches with goldfish is that goldfish will eat any fish which they can catch and fit into their mouths, and hillstream loaches are very small fish...Its only chance of not getting eaten by a big goldfish would be to not be noticed by the goldfish and to be quick enough to swim away when it does get noticed.
Anyways, with the hillstream loach thing, they would only thrive if they were keep in a very well oxygenated and strongly filtered tank with water that was kept exceptionally clean, unlike goldfish, these loaches are quite specialised care/habitat fish and are really not tolerant at all of water quality problems or lots of organic waste like poop in their tanks (which goldfish create a lot of).
Its also best to have a constant supply of algae for them too, because they are difficult fish to move onto prepared foods (some never do).
The main problem i can see with keeping hillstream loaches with goldfish is that goldfish will eat any fish which they can catch and fit into their mouths, and hillstream loaches are very small fish...Its only chance of not getting eaten by a big goldfish would be to not be noticed by the goldfish and to be quick enough to swim away when it does get noticed.