Sciaenochromis ahli vs fryeri

RD.

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According to Konings, as per his book Malawi Cichlids in their natural habitat, 3rd edition, they are two different species. Fryeri is found lake wide, ahli only in the northern regions. He also mentions that fryeri has been confused with ahli in almost all the aquaristic literature.

Also, there is another fish that is similar to these two, which Konings refers to as Sciaenochromis sp. "nyassae", which is even rarer.
 

Stephen St.Clair

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I have seen two different looking Haps sold under the same name "Electric Blue Ahli". One type had the elongated Hap build. The other was built more like a Aulonocara.
I happened upon a Peacock shaped one a few months ago at my LFS and quickly scooped him up. 20181214_110433.jpg
 

RD.

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Electric Blue Ahli, is an old school trade name, still used by older generation breeders. So when a store orders, that's the name on the breeders/shippers list. True S. ahli are almost non existent in the hobby. 99% sold in the hobby are either S. fryeri, or hybrids of same.
 
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james99

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The peacock shaped fryeri are probably fryeri/peacock mixes. It's a real common cross, kind of like the lab/zebra crosses that produce the completely yellow fish.
 

lunsforj

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So I had this discussion personally over lunch with Steve Lundblad of the cichlid exchange. At the time, his opinion was there wasn't an ahli, and all imports that came in as such were fryeri. That being said, he was an avid breeder at the time, and noticed over generations the species got taller, also it tended towards a redder anal fin. To my knowledge, he was not trying to create a redder anal fin variety. I think that was more of an observation of his breeding lots of generations of fish.
 
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RD.

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Almost all imports that came in over the years have indeed been S. fryeri, no one is disputing that, but that doesn't mean that S. ahli don't exist in the lake. The confusion came in the early years as fryeri were tagged by importers and wholesale vendors as being "ahli" which were originally described from a population near Lumbila in the northern part of the lake belonging to Tanzania. (Ahl, 1927)

At that time vendors sold them as Haplochromis Electric Blue, or Electric Blue Hap, or Electric Blue Ahli. One of the earlier African cichlid identification books that hit the market years ago in 1995, Cichlids, the pictorial guide, by Pablo Tepoot, who at that time operated on the largest African cichlid farms in Florida, shows a photo of what is clearly a red anal finned S. fryeri, and under the photo has the following names listed: Haplochromis Ahli, Sciaenochromis ahli, and Electric Blue. This is exactly why I prefer proper Latin names, vs trade names.

Clearly there are different physical traits of S. fryeri among the various collection locations. Ad Konings and others have certainly noted this over the years, and this is common among many of the species in the lake.

Male fryeri of the southern population have a white blaze on the head and nape. (I have owned fryeri from this part of the lake) Males from Likoma lack the white blaze, but have reddish anal fins, and it is at this location (Likoma) where a large portion of S. fryeri have been collected over the years for export. (I have also owned fryeri from this location) The original specimens collected for export years ago came from Maleri Island, and around Cape Maclear. (as per Ad Konings)

Unless someone has something concrete (such as DNA) to refute Ad Konings et al, I'm going to have to agree with their findings.
 

lunsforj

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Perhaps, there is a cichlid that is separate from fryeri, but close enough to warrant confusion. I think DNA evidence is important when separating species, but this type of of analysis wasn't done when these species were described. Most of these species were described using mostly body forms and dentition. Therefore, I'm not sure how DNA analysis plays into the argument of whether or not a hobbiest has one or the other. I would think it would be safe to say, almost all fish in the hobby are fryeri, and until that fish is broken up into different species (and I'm sure it will be), should be treated as so.
 
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lunsforj

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Also, the anal fin, wasn't a describing factor, to my knowledge. It was more of an observation that, females preferred males with a red anal fin, and over a few generations, F1, F2 etc. it became a more prominent feature than seen in wild caught males.
 

RD.

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I would think it would be safe to say, almost all fish in the hobby are fryeri, and until that fish is broken up into different species (and I'm sure it will be), should be treated as so.
Earlier you stated:
In scientific nomenclature the first name given, fryeri in this case, is kept and the name that was given at a later date is discarded.
Except ahli was the first name given, named after Dr. Ernst Ahl who first described this fish in 1927. Trewavas made Haplochromis ahli valid in 1935.

https://www.fishbase.de/summary/Sciaenochromis-ahli

http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?genid=10116

Sciaenochromis Eccles [D. H.] & Trewavas [E.] 1989:231 Masc. Haplochromis ahli Trewavas 1935. Type by original designation. •Valid as Sciaenochromis Eccles & Trewavas 1989 -- (Maréchal 1991:440 [ref. 20944], Konings 1993:29 [ref. 21304], Snoeks & Hanssens 2004:297 [ref. 28117]). Current status: Valid as Sciaenochromis Eccles & Trewavas 1989. Cichlidae: Pseudocrenilabrinae.


The name fryeri did not come into play until many years later, in 1993.

https://www.fishbase.de/summary/Sciaenochromis-fryeri.html

http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatmain.asp


fryeri, Sciaenochromis Konings [A. F.] 1993:31, 2 figs. [The Cichlids Yearbook v. 3; ref. 21304] Mbenji Island, Lake Malawi. Holotype: MRAC 92.146.P.4. Paratypes: BMNH 1956.6.4.10 (1), 1988.1.22.29 (1); MRAC 92.146.P.5-7 (3). •Valid as Sciaenochromis fryeri Konings 1993 -- (Snoeks & Hanssens 2004:300 [ref. 28117], Konings 2016:264 [ref. 34521]). Current status: Valid as Sciaenochromis fryeri Konings 1993. Cichlidae: Pseudocrenilabrinae. Distribution: Eastern Africa: Lake Malawi. Habitat: freshwater.


So if one is going to use scientific nomenclature as the foundation of this argument, we should be calling them all S. ahli.
 

RD.

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Also, the anal fin, wasn't a describing factor, to my knowledge
Not an official describing factor, but according to Ad Konings different collection locations have, or do not have, this trait. Having never collected fish in these locations I'm in no position to argue, but I have seen WC specimens with very red anal fins, and those that did not display that feature. Ditto to the "iceburg" trait seen, or not seen, in males from different locations. Considering the fact that this species is found lake wide this certainly doesn't come as a surprise to me that various locations would have slightly different physical characteristics. Take the common yellow lab in comparison, with different collection locations showing different colors/markings, compared to what one typically sees in the trade. As an example the Lion's Cove variant is distinctly different from the Ruarwe variant, and I have owned both.
 
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