Setting up my first wet/dry and sump

[DaveB]

I bought a nice 110 acrylic tank that is perfect for my geophagus tank... had been looking for a 5 foot tank for a while (6 won't fit the space, 4 is what I have currently). Since 5 footers are hard to find I ended up buying one that was drilled (and all kinds of scratched) and so I am making my first foray into using overflows and sumps. I currently have 4 canisters and 3 AC110s on my tanks and have no experience with this kind.

As you can see, it has plenty of bioballs. It also has a bunch of fine white pad/floss rolled up in a box. It does not, however, have anything else. So I'm free to set it up as I please.

I was planning to seed it with the media from the current tank's filters (2 HOB) since they won't fit on the new tank, but this scratch removal is going to take me a while, so I can probably just set it up and get it running on the existing tank for a couple weeks now with fresh media before I am ready to set the new tank up.

For this to be adequate for both bio and mechanical filtration for the 110, what should I fill that first compartment up with?

Oh, and the pump is a MagDrive 1200 if that makes any difference.

 

[DaveB]

I should note that I am not opposed to scrapping that thing and DIY-ing my own, provided there's a way to increase the filtration while still fitting inside the stand (which isn't huge - 60x18x whatever the standard height is, 30?) But I would think that this would be adequate. My main concern is just mechanical, since the acrylic up top doesn't have room for me to add another filter to use for that (like I would in an ideal world) and just jam this one with pot scrubbies.

 

[DaveB]

Anyone? I am pretty clueless about getting started with this, as I have never used wet/dry before. I'm actually totally unsure about how much water I should have in the tank and overflow too, how to keep the overflow silent, how to make sure the lower levels of the tank water make their way up top to overflow, etc. Is there a good link that describes the basics of this?

One thing I'm having some trouble understanding is the flow through the filter. If you look in the picture it has a compartment in the left with the bioballs in the middle. All the DIYs and things I have found on google (example) have the water input come right in to the media and it trickles down through the bioballs and whatnot first. This one appears to want to bring the water into a mechanical chamber first and then to the balls... but if it enters at the top I'm not sure what purpose that side compartment could even serve. Mine has the pipe with slits in it and the sponge inside the overflow box as well, is that sufficient for keeping it running silently? Should the overflow box be full or have a water level well below that of the tank? Seems like full would make it silent, but also be a flood risk if the power went out, but low would make noise as the water splashed into the box.

 

[justin guest]

Hi Dave
It looks like the first chamber is a settling and mechanical filter chamber. I´m assuming that no water can pass into the trickle chamber underneath the bioballs. What i´m not quite able to see from your photos is exactly how this chamber is set up. it seems that the water comes into the back of the chamber and flows past a screen ? of some sort then flows onto the drip tray through an opening at the top. As for an ideal arrangement within this chamber additional photos from above and from the side of the chamber would be helpful.
j<><

 

[justin guest]

As for the overflow thing a couple of pics would also be good
j<><

 

[DaveB]

Thanks for responding!

Yeah, the first chamber is definitely for mechanical, but I guess I'm not sure how the idea of settling figures in. The water comes in the top and leaves through the top, which makes me wonder how effective the mech filtration would even be - wouldn't the new water just arrive and head right out to the drip chamber? What is the point of that being any deeper than just a few inches at the top?

Ask and you shall receive... loads of pics. It's a standard center overflow box. One input and two PVC outputs. The photos:

1) tank sitting vertically, the foam and slitted pipe that was set up for the intake. One small hole drilled in the top might let me be able to sneak an XP3 or something with a thin intake tube in there. Might use the Eheim I have on a different tank to run while this one populates with bacteria
2) the nasty mech foam block that came with it as well as a view of the barrier between the 1st chamber and the 2nd
3) the two intakes at the top of the 1st chamber. I assume this is just able to handle a dual overflow tank
4) This was in the box next to it... I have no idea, perhaps it was some sort of modified standpipe atop the tube in #1?
5) view of chambers 2 and 3 and the sticker saying who made the setup (also a great view of how dirty it is). I believe that's a mag drive 1200. Not shown is the Y output on the other end of it. Not sure what role that r-shaped PVC plays.
6) looking in from chamber 3. I have no idea what that white knob thingy is, perhaps it helps hold the drip tray in place.
7) side view, shows the Y as well
8) another shot of mostly dirt, also the adjustible door between chamber 1 and 2
9) wide angle just to get an idea of its size - the stand is 5 feet wide (and that's the canopy atop the stand)
10) (actually this one might show up first since it won't be thumbnailed) the full view.

A major concern for me is that this has to be quiet, as it will be in the living room. So if that slotted intake won't work I can make a standpipe. But there's no valve or anything to deal with a possible sucking noise down in the filter. It did, however, come with a UV sterilizer, which I would imagine would provide a bit of backpressure, slowing down the flow (I have never used one of those either but I assume it goes between the output and the tank). Or maybe it doesn't, I have no idea. A standpipe also seems to me like it would provide the best insurance against power outage flooding - I could keep the water level inside the overflow really high but not worry about it draining.

Another area of concern is water circulation, since it overflows from the top and returns at the top too. I've got powerheads of course but wouldn't mind some advice on optimal placement so that I don't have to worry about tons of waste piling up on the sand. This tank will be planted so there'll be areas I won't easily be able to vaccuum. (The possible future inclusion of CO2 also factors into my concerns about all the movement being up top as well, I suppose... but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.)

Anyway, thanks so much - I think I'll be able to get the tank scratches out this weekend so I'll be ready to attack this project pretty soon.

Photos (finally):

 

[cdienzo]

It looks like you've got an older pro-clear "pro-series" wet-dry. I believe that the 1st chamber was meant to house a protein skimmer. That would explain its odd placement. The "skimmed" water would then flow up & over the first wall (baffle) and down through the bio-balls. That "nasty sponge" is meant to be wedged under the 2nd baffle (the open space at the bottom, between the 2nd & 3rd chambers). That sponge is the only real mechanical in this system, it seems.

If you want to silence the splashing in the overflow box, you could replace the slotted pipe with a Durso standpipe (a quick google search of "diy durso standpipe" should net you all the info you need). Basically, it allows the overflow tower- or box, in this case, to be more full, greatly reducing the distance that the overflow water has to fall.

I've never used a skimmer before, so I'm sure that there are some plumbing details regarding the 1st chamber that I'm leaving out.

GL with the build/resto!

Regards,
-cd

 

[stevietennis]

Very nice setup you have there. I believe what others are saying is correct. That first chamber is for water and maybe a protein skimmer; which you mostly won't need. Once that Chamber fills up it will flow over the top and on to the drip plate. You can add some mechanical filters here like some micron filter pads. Then the water trickles through the bio balls for bio filtration. Finally is falls through all the bio balls and into the last chamber where your return pump will send to water back to you display tank.

As cdienzo said if you want quite you can look into making a Durso pipe stand for the overflow chamber. This will lower the noise considerably. All the part can be found at Lowes or Home Depot and should cost under 5 dollars to make. Alternatively I have seen people dump Bio Balls into the overflow. I don't know how effective this is but if anyone has done this please feel free to chime in.

 

[justin guest]

Well sounds like the others beat me to it. all the above suggestions would help a lot. One thing that may help you increase the mechanical prefiltration and overall biofiltration would be to put a vertical sandwich construction of coarse foam/filter floss/coarse foam across the first chamber forcing the water from the two inlet pipes to first flow through the sandwich before spilling onto the drip tray. This sandwich of foam and floss should be cut so that the top edge is about 2 cm above the working water level so that the water can still flow over it and onto the drip tray when the filter floss gets clogged. Cut the foam pieces so that they fit snuggly across the chamber so that they don´t move around.

As for filling the overflow in the tank with bioballs it shouldn´t cause any problems but you won´t be able to install a durso pipe with bioballs because there will be too many dead zones in the overflow chamber. With a durso pipe (quieter) you should leave the overflow chamber empty of filter material.

Chuck away the piece of foam in the sump. It looks a bit tired.

If you further want to increase the biofiltration put an airstone under the bioballs (I´m assuming the water level will be above the edge of the flow through from chamber 2 to 3) so that the trickle filter gets some counter directional airation.

Really important - it looks like the two return pipes from the pump are installed in the tank below water level. these both need to be redone so that they allow water to return from the sump at the tank surface, otherwise half the tank will drain into the sump when the power goes out. Maybe this is obvious but you wouldn´t be the first to make this mistake.

As for having enough water flow in the tank to get solids out of the bottom of the tank - well this is one of the disadvantages of this system. looks like you can´t chuck away the gravel siphon just yet.

A point about using co2. Trickle filters and co2 can work but you are gonna need a lot more co2 than usual. the effect of the trickle filter on co2 usage will be greater than the additional powerheads. You´ll have to have another think about this one unfortunately.

The UV sterilizer should be placed in the return line after the pump. Buy a new bulb for it if you are gonna use it. Even if the bulb works the chances are that it´s not putting out much UV anymore. And don´t forget to clean the quartz glass separating the lamp from the water otherwise the UV won´t go through the glass into the water. If there are a lot of calcium deposits on the glass a weak solution of hydrochloric acid (5%) mixed with a bit of water will get rid of the deposits when sponged over the glass, but be careful with the acid. I always keep a bucket of clean water next to me just in case some of the mixture splashes. I don´t recommend using acid otherwise in the hobby but for removing calcium from glass there´s nothing quicker.

Let us know if you need some more tips
j<><

 

[DaveB]

Well sounds like the others beat me to it. all the above suggestions would help a lot. One thing that may help you increase the mechanical prefiltration and overall biofiltration would be to put a vertical sandwich construction of coarse foam/filter floss/coarse foam across the first chamber forcing the water from the two inlet pipes to first flow through the sandwich before spilling onto the drip tray. This sandwich of foam and floss should be cut so that the top edge is about 2 cm above the working water level so that the water can still flow over it and onto the drip tray when the filter floss gets clogged. Cut the foam pieces so that they fit snuggly across the chamber so that they don´t move around.

I think I can picture what you're saying but if you had a picture of a similar setup I would love that.

The thing my mind is currently stuck on is the fact that it seems like there will end up being standing water in several places with this setup - the tank itself (as water goes in and out of the filter only from the top, though powerheads can address this); the overflow if I use a standpipe; and that first chamber, where water also enters and leaves from the top. Or will there be enough water coming down through the intake (which will only use one of those two pipes since it's a single overflow) that it'll force water down to the bottom of that chamber so all the foam is used?

Also, would I want to use some foam at the bottom under the bioballs as well, as someone else suggested?

As for filling the overflow in the tank with bioballs it shouldn´t cause any problems but you won´t be able to install a durso pipe with bioballs because there will be too many dead zones in the overflow chamber. With a durso pipe (quieter) you should leave the overflow chamber empty of filter material.

I'm just going to do the durso pipe. Nice and easy. That was the only decision about this I was able to make on my own so far, unless several people chipped in and said that their tanks were quiet even without it.

Chuck away the piece of foam in the sump. It looks a bit tired.

If you further want to increase the biofiltration put an airstone under the bioballs (I´m assuming the water level will be above the edge of the flow through from chamber 2 to 3) so that the trickle filter gets some counter directional airation.

Yeah, I've got plenty of foam so there's no reason to try to keep that old stuff. That's a good idea about the air stone and easy to set up. I'm also going to have the heater down there, unless people have tried that and noticed that they end up with hot and cold spots in the tank that way.

Really important - it looks like the two return pipes from the pump are installed in the tank below water level. these both need to be redone so that they allow water to return from the sump at the tank surface, otherwise half the tank will drain into the sump when the power goes out. Maybe this is obvious but you wouldn´t be the first to make this mistake.

I'm not sure what you mean here. How would the pipes ever NOT be below the water in a sump? Or were you just referring to that last small photo? Those are just tubes attached to that UGF, which I didn't even bring home with the tank. There are two holes drilled in the overflow next to the intake, each of which has PVC that goes up, out, and back down into the tank in the larger of the holes drilled up top.

A point about using co2. Trickle filters and co2 can work but you are gonna need a lot more co2 than usual. the effect of the trickle filter on co2 usage will be greater than the additional powerheads. You´ll have to have another think about this one unfortunately.

Yeah, I don't know enough about CO2 to know how much it changes things, but am aware that it does need more. It'll probably be a while before we get the CO2 so I'll learn more about it once I start preparing for that. For now I just want to get the scratches out and set it up for the fish. I'll worry about plants once the fish are happy.

The UV sterilizer should be placed in the return line after the pump. Buy a new bulb for it if you are gonna use it. Even if the bulb works the chances are that it´s not putting out much UV anymore. And don´t forget to clean the quartz glass separating the lamp from the water otherwise the UV won´t go through the glass into the water. If there are a lot of calcium deposits on the glass a weak solution of hydrochloric acid (5%) mixed with a bit of water will get rid of the deposits when sponged over the glass, but be careful with the acid. I always keep a bucket of clean water next to me just in case some of the mixture splashes. I don´t recommend using acid otherwise in the hobby but for removing calcium from glass there´s nothing quicker.

I am glad you are feeling so helpful! I probably would've just plugged it in without doing any of that.

Made me think of another question though - does pushing water through the UV slow the flow down? Should I put the UV in before the split to the dual returns? The reason I ask is because with an air pump or a car exhaust if one side is easier, it'll all just take the path of least resistance and go that way. I don't know what kind of effect the UVS might have on that with water, having never used one.