Setting up my second loach tank.

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Updating this thread for the sake of comparison to some of Loaches Online's setups.

I don't think I had realized up until this point how similar the general stocking and theme is to a number of said setups. Not even to Martin Thoene's setup, which was the very inspiration for making this documentation thread.
Even if the numbers and species of fish are not always the same (and even then, there are some number and species matches), the shared general theme seems to be. Substantially sized tank, several species of loach all in large groups, assorted dither fish, and a generous stocking level (presumably to give all those schooling species maximum company, as I aim to do with my generous stocking levels).

First, Emma Turner's display tank at work. 2.44m x 47cm x 76cm, 852 liters.
Clown loaches, Burmese loaches, Bengal loaches, zebra loaches, and golden zebra loaches for loaches, all in large (15 clown loaches as mentioned in the link, 5+ for the rest as mentioned by Emma elsewhere) groups. Also L007 and some corys.
Dither fish are tetras, panda garra, and angelfish.

1650331453602.png
Next, Bookpage/Rayburn Taylor's tanks of 1.83m x 47cm x 55cm (the same size as mine) to 2.44m x 61cm x 61 cm and 473-908 liters.
As their signature says: Clowns(15), Polka-Dot(6), Sids(57), Zebra(12), Burmese(5), Red-fin(4), YoYo(5), Sumo(2), Skunk(4), Peckoltia sabaji(1), L144 Black Eye Bristlenose Pleco(3), Odessa Barb(9), Roseline Sharks(6).



Finally, Martin Thoene's setup. 1.83m x 47cm x 55cm (same size as mine, once again), 473 liters.
It's gone through various ups and downs throughout its history due to things like equipment clogging, but at its peaks it has had the following:

-10 clown loaches, 3 Burmese loaches, 4 golden zebra loaches, and a lone Bengal loach, all within the 10-15 cm size range. This is one of several things I most admire about his setup, as this means he has had the exact same number of Botia as I plan to, in the exact same size tank, and even with some species overlap (Burmese loach).

-20 tiger barbs, 13 bronze corys, 12-15 Danio kyathit, and a lone filament barb. No species overlap here, but we both share a substantial amount of dither fish.

-His is a river tank setup. While mine is nowhere near extensive as his (one large powerhead/water pump vs a number of powerheads and an entire manifold), the concept is the same, and unsurprisingly so given the fish (although mine will have calm areas to suit the non-riverine striped kuhli loaches).

I feel his setup and mine have the greatest overall similarity due to the matching tank size, matching number of Botia, some species match, and even not too dissimilar backstories. This is quite fitting, since as stated before his setup was the inspiration for this writeup (even though it wasn't inspiration for the stocking and such).


1650334132888.png

Although my clown loach tank with a lower amount of large fish will remain my favorite (but not by much), I very much enjoy the concept of large numbers of smaller loaches kept in large tanks, given the number and variety of loaches one can have in such a situation (together with all the various dithers). My enjoyment of that concept is definitely why my tank planning independently ended up so similar to Loaches Online's setups.
 

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Agreed. There is more than a little information on it I can't agree with, like:

-Fast growing clown loaches.
-Kuhli loaches should not live with Botia.
-All Botia need current.

And so on.

Those setups, however, are some of the better ones I have seen by far. From my experience keeping Botia and other fish, although I do not strive to mimic those setups to a T, the overall premise of them appears correct.
 
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TwoTankAmin

Aimara
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I have my 13 clowns which range in size from about 3.5 to 11 inches TL in a 150 gallon tank along with about 15 full size redline barbs. I am debating moving them to a 220. A 473l is about 125 gallons and I would not consider that adequate for your planned stocking.

Big clowns need big space. I have had my two largest since 2002. The were parked in a 15 gal. for months when I got them at 4 inches. Then they went into a 75 and about 6 years ago they went into the 150. Now they are ready for bigger.

This picture from Bob Darnell on loaches.com is why I keep clowns:

 

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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A 473l is about 125 gallons and I would not consider that adequate for your planned stocking.
What stocking do you mean? If you're referring to clown loaches, no, there will be no clown loaches in this tank - no species of loach that exceeds 15 cm is planned.

If you are referring to the mixed loach stocking I listed earlier, how many loaches do you consider it adequate for? I didn't see a problem with 18 Botia in the 10-15 cm range since Martin Thoene had that many in that size tank and saw no problem.
But if I find there is an inadequacy in space with that stock, some of the loaches can always be returned to the store or rehomed. Some of them could alternatively be moved to the custom 681 liter with a 2.44m x 61 cm footprint that I am saving to get as an upgrade from my other 473 liter, if I get it at the right time to do that.

Thank you for sharing Bob Darnell's picture, it is a very nice one. I agree that large clown loaches need a lot of space, which is precisely why I only have 6 and am saving for that upgrade to the custom tank (even though mine are only 10-13 cm at this time).
 
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TwoTankAmin

Aimara
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More than six would be even better. ? And yes I was referring to the clowns. The nice part about thinking I need a 220 gal. is it means I could add a few more clowns.


I have kept redlines now for many years. I have never had oxygen issues when doing water changes and I keep them a bit warmer than I should. I do have decent surface agitation from the 3 filters on the 150 gal (567l) but these are turned off during water changes and tank maint. My current group were bought as imports at 2 inches about 5 years ago. I have never lot one doing water changes amd O stop all three filters and have no airstones in the tank.
 

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Agree that 13 clowns is too much for 473-568 liters, at least when they really put some size on.
More than 6 is definitely better though, I might get more for that large-footprint 681 liter. Good luck with adding more to your group when you upgrade, one thing you can look forward to (that you may already know) is a very interesting hierarchy change.

And thank you for the tip on your roselines. After reading this (https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...death-to-my-school-of-roseline-sharks.646432/), I had become very paranoid about low oxygen, but it looks like I don't have to be. Even moreso, since mine won't be warmer than 25 degrees (presumably yours are at 27+)?
 

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Yet another update. Asked Loaches Online for their $0.02, and their advice seems sound enough.

Stocking has changed. For the purpose of aesthetics and compatibility, the yoyo loaches will be replaced with equal numbers zebra and Burmese loaches (so 9 of each of those instead of 6 of all 3).
Instead, I'll wait for the future custom tank I mentioned to get them, and they'll go in there with my clown loaches. They'll likely be more compatible with clown loaches than zebra loaches.

Kuhli loach numbers increased as well, from 24 to 36.

Finally, as I mentioned in some other threads, the pink tail chalceus will likely be transferred to the custom clown loach tank when it's done. Or in other words, it will spend some time in this loach tank but it's unlikely to be a permanent resident.

I think I'll make a thread about the custom clown loach tank too, when the time is appropriate.
 
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cockroach

Goliath Tigerfish
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Clowns and Yoyo's should be fine. I have had mine together in a high flow 75gal for a while now with no issues. They are all outgoing and I regularly hand feed them as a group. I don't have many either - 4 of each but they are working for the time being. The 2 largest Yoyo's have caught up to the CL's in size now and 2 have remained suspiciously small.

 
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MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Great to hear. Clowns and yoyos getting along would be one of the best things to put in the thread about the custom tank.

Especially considering that when I first tried it some years ago and was improperly told to only get 3 yoyos instead of the usual 5-6 minimum, it failed miserably. A good mix would be the perfect opposite to it.
 
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