The 12fter IS HERE!!!!!!!!!

Jake Adams

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 9, 2010
26
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Golden, CO
It is really a bad idea to use oolitic sand with in a saltwater fish aquarium, especially a nutrient heavy tank like a predator aquarium. Oolitic sand is used in some reef tanks because it acts like a manageable nutrient sink under some conditions; in a fish tank it just stores and releases wastes and harbors parasites. DO yourself a favor and remove the sugar fine sand from your fish tank.

With your average level of filtration the aquarium would stay much cleaner without any substrate to trap waste and you'll find your aquarium staying much cleaner and clearer over time. Most serious reefkeepers don't use oolitic sand in reef tanks any more either.
 

TheCanuck

Piranha
MFK Member
Nov 9, 2009
3,058
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DALLAS TEXAS
Jake Adams;4023481; said:
It is really a bad idea to use oolitic sand with in a saltwater fish aquarium, especially a nutrient heavy tank like a predator aquarium. Oolitic sand is used in some reef tanks because it acts like a manageable nutrient sink under some conditions; in a fish tank it just stores and releases wastes and harbors parasites. DO yourself a favor and remove the sugar fine sand from your fish tank.

With your average level of filtration the aquarium would stay much cleaner without any substrate to trap waste and you'll find your aquarium staying much cleaner and clearer over time. Most serious reefkeepers don't use oolitic sand in reef tanks any more either.
Well i have been using this sand ever since i have started SW... i have had no issues with it. I don't do anything more than a 1'' sand bed so i think trapping wastes and holding parasites is not going to happen. Also the eel constantly is moving rocks and sand so i don't really have to worry. My filtration is more than average and the tank is very over filtered. There is a lot of debate about not using crushed coral over fine sand. Fine sand looks better and have I never had a problem with parasites, infections, or water params. So ill just stick with what has worked in the past. Its to late anyways, already have everything set up, and have always used sugar fine sand even in my freshwater aquariums. My jags breed in it and the babies thrive. I only buy the carbisea sand because of the added bio. So my sand bed should act as a BB filter, and nothing more. Ill have my scrubber to remove nitrates. Even if it does only add more to the amonia and nitrites, my filtration will over power it easily. Though if i do have problems action will be taken.

Thanks for the input, ill be doing some reading on this.
 

TheCanuck

Piranha
MFK Member
Nov 9, 2009
3,058
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DALLAS TEXAS
nes999;4023616; said:
about 6 months ago i had full plans in turning my 500gal into a fowlr set up. it was mainly the cost that kept me away and i really wanted rtc and such
Yea a lot of the cost can be avoided if you have good shopping skills. I find it doesn't cost much more for a large SW tank than a FW. It all depends on how you set it up.
 

TheCanuck

Piranha
MFK Member
Nov 9, 2009
3,058
70
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DALLAS TEXAS
nes999;4023709; said:
yeah i know that its mainly my fualt i just love to go way over board on filtration.
Haha if you want to go over board , then you find the biggest plastic tub possible. Get some 2'' pvc then get pot scrubbies. Call it a day lol.

Thats what i did :D


but the skimmer would have to be a SOB to run that thing.... but you could just build an algea scrubber for 20$ and not use a skimmer :D
 

tcarswell

Polypterus
MFK Member
Dec 6, 2008
6,677
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92
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Tibet
nes999;4023897; said:
you might have just talked me back into the sw idea.
No kidding... looked back over the thread. Such an awesome tank.
 

Kevin8888

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 14, 2009
1,306
2
0
Canada
Jake Adams;4023481; said:
It is really a bad idea to use oolitic sand with in a saltwater fish aquarium, especially a nutrient heavy tank like a predator aquarium. Oolitic sand is used in some reef tanks because it acts like a manageable nutrient sink under some conditions; in a fish tank it just stores and releases wastes and harbors parasites. DO yourself a favor and remove the sugar fine sand from your fish tank.

With your average level of filtration the aquarium would stay much cleaner without any substrate to trap waste and you'll find your aquarium staying much cleaner and clearer over time. Most serious reefkeepers don't use oolitic sand in reef tanks any more either.
Actualy that is almost complete fiction for a number of reasons, and the statment shows some ignorance as to the biology involved in a aquarium.

Firstly Oolitic sand preforms the majorety of biofiltration in a system, the amount of surface area for nitrification to occur is around 3 acres per cubic foot infinatly more then live rock. Also, the sand will not store any more waste then there is in the water, as in if you have .5ppm ammonia in your water then you have the same in the sand, and as the ammonia goes down in the water so does the sand (except with DSBs but there are different things in play there). How would it trap these things? Its not a solid? Its not a gel? Its like a sponge, if you float the sponge in water it will absorbe some, but if you take it out the water drains.

If it was crushed coral I would agree, as it litteraly traps big chuncks of waste and leftover food allowing them to slowly break down and release unbelieveable amounts of Nitrogen products. Though this is due to large particle size (the exact opposite of oolitic sand).

Infact in a reef aquarium (as you discussed) you should be using even finer then standard Oolitic sands, smaller then .125mm grains are the best size for microinverts to thrive and naturaly clean the wastes in your tank. So anyone using anything larger then sugar fine, is relying completely on mechanical and chemical filtrations (which in my opinion is overly costly and much higher maintenance). But at the same time if done improperly the finer grain sand will cause problems, but if done properly (with true live sand, filled with microinverts and the like) it will almost completely remove the need for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate water changes (water changes to replace trace elements is different though).

Yes the tank will stay "cleaner" without substrate, but ammonia and nitrite levels would be much higher do to the missing biofiltration provided by the sand. So that means more water changes.

Yes the sand can harbour parasites... but so can fish... and so does live rock... so if you want to keep parasites out of your system... then I suggest just filling a tank with RO water and enjoy its emptyness. Though more seriously, its call QT everything you add to your tank, starting with fish/inverts and continuing through any live rock or corals you add, thats the only way to deal with parasites reasonably as sand wont make a difference.
 

TheCanuck

Piranha
MFK Member
Nov 9, 2009
3,058
70
81
33
DALLAS TEXAS
nes999;4023897; said:
you might have just talked me back into the sw idea.
Lets see that big SW tank go up!!!

tcarswell;4024373; said:
No kidding... looked back over the thread. Such an awesome tank.
Haha thanks man, can't wait for you 240 to go up.

Kevin8888;4024437; said:
Actualy that is almost complete fiction for a number of reasons, and the statment shows some ignorance as to the biology involved in a aquarium.

Firstly Oolitic sand preforms the majorety of biofiltration in a system, the amount of surface area for nitrification to occur is around 3 acres per cubic foot infinatly more then live rock. Also, the sand will not store any more waste then there is in the water, as in if you have .5ppm ammonia in your water then you have the same in the sand, and as the ammonia goes down in the water so does the sand (except with DSBs but there are different things in play there). How would it trap these things? Its not a solid? Its not a gel? Its like a sponge, if you float the sponge in water it will absorbe some, but if you take it out the water drains.

If it was crushed coral I would agree, as it litteraly traps big chuncks of waste and leftover food allowing them to slowly break down and release unbelieveable amounts of Nitrogen products. Though this is due to large particle size (the exact opposite of oolitic sand).

Infact in a reef aquarium (as you discussed) you should be using even finer then standard Oolitic sands, smaller then .125mm grains are the best size for microinverts to thrive and naturaly clean the wastes in your tank. So anyone using anything larger then sugar fine, is relying completely on mechanical and chemical filtrations (which in my opinion is overly costly and much higher maintenance). But at the same time if done improperly the finer grain sand will cause problems, but if done properly (with true live sand, filled with microinverts and the like) it will almost completely remove the need for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate water changes (water changes to replace trace elements is different though).

Yes the tank will stay "cleaner" without substrate, but ammonia and nitrite levels would be much higher do to the missing biofiltration provided by the sand. So that means more water changes.

Yes the sand can harbour parasites... but so can fish... and so does live rock... so if you want to keep parasites out of your system... then I suggest just filling a tank with RO water and enjoy its emptyness. Though more seriously, its call QT everything you add to your tank, starting with fish/inverts and continuing through any live rock or corals you add, thats the only way to deal with parasites reasonably as sand wont make a difference.
:nilly: Haha can always count on kevin, this guy knows his stuff.:headbang2

^^^ will be the first person to breed every dam tang known to man... then make some cool hybrids for my tank
 
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