toughest battle yet - your suggestions, please

[Zander_The_RBP]

Howdy,

Thanks epond83, but no direct sunlight. My lights are on for 7+6 hours with one hour interruption. I have been doing this lighting scheme for over 20 years, and I've had these specific lights for 5 years (w/ new bulbs regularly). This is my first time with algae problems. I doubt it's the lighting. As for the drip, when I reduce the drip to 1 gal/h nitrates go up to 50 ppm. My shrimp don't like that ...

jcardona, looks like the simple pH diffusion chambers from the 90s have come a long way. I agree that my "theoretical" CO2 content is unrealistic, but I'm not quite ready to make the step into a new CO2 endeavor. This tank has been running w/o CO2 in its current location for 2 years, and these algae problems are new. I kept lighting constant by regular bulb renewal. There must be something else. The fact that I only have algae in one half of my tank (side of filter outlets) and the fact that they coincided with addition of my second filter make me blame the flow velocity. That's what I'll tackle first.

The info on phosphates is very interesting, thank you for that . But I also have to admit that I remain skeptical. After all, it was phosphates from laundry detergents that caused algae blooms in ponds and lakes in the 1980s. I see how it might be necessary to dose phosphates, just like it is sometimes necessary to dose nitrates - if that specific nutrient is a limiting factor. That's definitely the case in a CO2 powered, high light, high ferts tank. Tom's tanks are a different league, but I will definitely keep it in mind!!! Bottom line I agree it's not the phosphates alone, or I would have algae in my entire tank, not just half of the tank....

I also absolutely agree that Excel is an expensive additive for a 220 gal tank. No kidding. I will run it for a few weeks just to kill off the algae. I am aware that that treats the symptoms, not the cause.

All right, this is my approach:

1. remove as much algae as I can, by cutting off leaves and by sterilizing equipment covered with it, such as filter outlets.
   --> Just get the crap out!
2. Drill additional holes into filter outlets to reduce water velocity
   --> following my bible, the Mergus Aquarium Atlas
3. Dose Flourish Excel and increase iron levels
   --> kill off remaining algae and increase competitiveness of macrophytes

At the same time, I will look into chemical filtration for phosphates, just to have that ace up my sleeve if needed. I will also keep CO2 in the back of my mind. If these algae wear me out over time and I am to the point of caving in, I'll drop you a line asking for recommendations on equipment.

I'll report back in a few weeks on how things are turning out. I assume this is not going to be resolved within a couple of days...

Again, thanks for the input. That's what makes MFK great.

HarleyK

if the alage is only on one side then sometihng tells me the phosphate is playing a factor but is definately not the whole story the higher flow is probably the missing factor.

this is sort of off topic but why not Just for curiosity's sake you DIY a drop checker to find out your actual co2 levels as im very curious to see what they are because theoretically they should be very high.

 

[jcardona1]

if the alage is only on one side then sometihng tells me the phosphate is playing a factor but is definately not the whole story the higher flow is probably the missing factor.

this is sort of off topic but why not Just for curiosity's sake you DIY a drop checker to find out your actual co2 levels as im very curious to see what they are because theoretically they should be very high.

how should the co2 levels be very high? He's not adding co2 so they will be extremely low, and won't even register on a drop checker. The color in the drop checker will not even change, it will stay blue. By not adding co2 the levels in the tank will stabilize with surrounding atmosphere, which if I remember correctly is around 3-4 ppm...

 

[jcardona1]

And Harley it is definitely interesting that these problems just barely started. I would say it has to do with the changing water parameters as a tank becomes established over time. Something had to have changed recently causing the problems. I think your tank has reached a level of maturity and the current conditions cannot keep things balanced and it may be time to think about changing the set up.

Excel is a good place to start. Have you thought about adding some Koralia powerheads? These are great for adding a wide, gentle current in a planted tank

 

[TMB]

you need to test your water and see where your levels are at.

 

[Zander_The_RBP]

how should the co2 levels be very high? He's not adding co2 so they will be extremely low, and won't even register on a drop checker. The color in the drop checker will not even change, it will stay blue. By not adding co2 the levels in the tank will stabilize with surrounding atmosphere, which if I remember correctly is around 3-4 ppm...

3-4 ppm not likely! The atmosphere typically has about 385 ppm of co2 waaay higher than most people can add to a tank which is why plants grow so well emmersed. It does equalize with the surrounding atmosphere but it's not a 1-1 ratio and there is the pH-Kh relationship to consider.


and i said it should be high becuase of the KH-pH relationship weather he doses for co2 or not.


it was just a suggestion to see how accurate those charts really are if anything it would prove exactly what your saying but if not it might prove an entirely new way to dose co2 and explain why atleast until now he has had such success with such high light with no algae.


just a thought

 

[epond83]

The ph-Kh chart has a very limited use, much like the WPG messurment for plants.

There are lots of things that effect Kh but a limited amount that also effect waters abilty to hold CO2 per a certain pH

As mentioned this is why drop checkers are used with a pure known sample of water. But if he is not adding co2 it is low in the tank gven the plant and algea load.

As mention if the tank has been running fine for a while and this suddenly came up i would try and figure out what has changed and figure out how to counter that.

 

[HarleyK]

Howdy,

Have you thought about adding some Koralia powerheads? These are great for adding a wide, gentle current in a planted tank

I have two 900 gph filters, with filter intakes on each side of this 6ft tank, and both spray bars on the left side. Looking at the movement, there is ample current throughout the entire tank, with strong current regions on the left. I really don't think extra water movement is needed.

To follow Mergus and my own observations in this tank: Bearded algae grow in high current regions. Thus, I tripled the diameter area of the spray bar holes from 1/8'' to 7/32''. Flow velocity has now dramatically decreased (though I can still see ample water movement across the tank). Let's see what that does.

I also took out __all__ affected plant matter and scrubbed decor. This morning, I added 100 of Excel, and I will follow up with 20 ml daily.

theoretically they should be very high.

how should the co2 levels be very high? He's not adding co2 so they will be extremely low

Actually, he was only following your quote, I believe?!

This is because tap water often has lots of CO2 dissolved in it which causes CO2 levels in your tank to fluctuate.

But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. For now, I will stick to means other than CO2. I will not be stubborn about it, though. If this doesn't clear up before the end of the year, then I will try everything that's out there, including CO2.

it is definitely interesting that these problems just barely started. I would say it has to do with the changing water parameters as a tank becomes established over time. Something had to have changed recently causing the problems.

As mention if the tank has been running fine for a while and this suddenly came up i would try and figure out what has changed and figure out how to counter that.

You are both right. The only one thing I changed was the addition of a second Eheim 900 gph filter in May. I hope this issue is related to the added current. We'll see, cross your fingers ...

HarleyK

 

[jcardona1]

3-4 ppm not likely! The atmosphere typically has about 385 ppm of co2 waaay higher than most people can add to a tank which is why plants grow so well emmersed. It does equalize with the surrounding atmosphere but it's not a 1-1 ratio and there is the pH-Kh relationship to consider.


and i said it should be high becuase of the KH-pH relationship weather he doses for co2 or not.


it was just a suggestion to see how accurate those charts really are if anything it would prove exactly what your saying but if not it might prove an entirely new way to dose co2 and explain why atleast until now he has had such success with such high light with no algae.


just a thought

yes youre right, what i said may have seemed a little confusing. when i said 3-4ppm of co2, i meant that's what it would be in the tank. non-c02 injected aquariums will stabilize with the atmosphere and maintain co2 levels of 3-4ppm. atmospheric co2 levels are very high as you stated 380ppm+. in co2-injected aquarium we try to aim for 30-40ppm of co2. and even with pressurized co2 injection and diffusion, this isnt always an easy level to maintain. it will be impossible to maintain levels this high even with DIY co2.

as i mentioned earlier, the kh/ph relationship is useless for aquariums. it will only give you accurate results if you have an empty tank, no plants, no fish, no substrate, no decor, nothing. because all of these things will affect the ph and kh in one way or another, giving you inaccurate results.

if Harley's co2 levels were really 150ppm like the kh/ph chart says, his fish would be DEAD!!!! pushing my co2 levels past 30ppm (to make the drop checker turn yellow) almost killed my fish as they quickly started gasping at the surface. so there is no way his co2 levels are that high.

 

[jcardona1]

another thing Harley, when i was having problems with hair algae / cladophora, i killed it off with hydrogen peroxide. i put the peroxide in a syringe and squirted it directly over the algae. it started to fizz up immediately and died off in about 2-3 days. give it a try and see if has any effect on the algae. it didnt bother my plants at all

 

[epond83]

I've heard of the peroxide trick before and have dipped rocks and driftwood in it to get rid of this type of algea