Two New Rare Catfish

[koltsixx]

Hey no apologies needed! I truly enjoy when others respond and provide input to the original post as well as bringing up related fish/topics in the process as the thread evolves and becomes more interesting as a result! I too, can easily go off on tangents from my own posts by bringing up subjects I think might be relevant to the ensuing discussion that might be helpful to others. I think any discussion about a given species would be incomplete without it's relationships with other tank mates and similar species as well. I'm so very pleased and humbled that anyone may find my posts interesting enough to read them, much less respond with their knowledge and experience to add to the topic too! In this case I don't feel that anyone here has derailed this thread in any way at all and I welcome anyone to to continue to muddy things up! No worries, it's all good! Thanks y'all...

Thank you Yellowcat as I definitely didn't want to mess up your thread and I had worried I had done just that. I have definitely found your posts interesting and informative and enjoy reading them. I also agree I feel that adding interactions with tankmates is a valuable contribution at least to me. I like to hear about the relationships between different species as I like to keep communities rather thank single species tanks when possible.

I’m derailing again but posting all of this information in private messages helps no one.
In my opinion you have not derailed it, the op has valid information on the question and now has information on other species they own which they can set up a separate thread for if they want and copy your feedback into.
Some like to have threads limited to one subject only, some like to have no chit chat, some like to create threads not about fish. Personally I like to learn as much as I can about any fish I own or may own at some point, so thank you all for every post above!

Thank you Fishman Dave I had hoped I stayed within the intention of the thread. I guess continuing the Fowleri posts is probably where I went off the original topic too far. I just thought thebiggerthebetter M Mikepugman and Yellowcat where all interested in the possible Fowleri and was trying to keep that information where I believed it would be easy for them to find instead of creating a thread just about my trying to get info. from Predatory Fins. Which I thought within itself would kind of be a waste of a thread.

Kolt, I wasn't singling you out at all. Sorry, my dear friend. Many contributed. But as Kirk says and as I had thought he'd say, it's all good. I've enjoyed reading everything you posted. As always.

Thank you, Viktor. I didn't feel you where singling me out, but I figured I was most responsible as I continued to post about the possible Fowleri.

To continue on with hopefully more pertinent info. towards the thread my small 2 inch Pac-man's finally ate. The Maculata ate right away and did help I believe the Pac-Man to feed but maybe in the long run more detrimental than beneficial. I tried guppies around 1/2 inch at most to no avail. They are still swimming around happily in the tank. I tried as Yellowcat had adding sinking food for the guppies to put them within striking distance but nada. The swift movements of the Maculata seem to be off putting to the Pac-Man, with them at times backing away. However, that movement is what caused some chopped frozen krill I added to swirl around the Pac-Man's head and entice a strike and the eating of the krill.

The Pac-Man seem to be extreme ambush predators, at least in my limited experience. I know it's pretty obvious but, in my experience, these guys thus far have taken it to the utmost. Many of my ambush predators haven't been above foraging to a degree. The Pac-Man and perhaps because it's because they are still getting used to their new environment aren't moving to search for food at all. They relocate I guess to optimize their position to maximize food availability, but I really seem to need to drop the food Infront of them and it move enough to attract their attention. So I don't know if they'd benefit from a species only tank. I am still going to try Brine Shrimp and Bloodworms for the little Pac-Man's, hopefully with more consistent eating.

If you want I can share some of my experiences with my own Rhinodoras(I have Dorbignyi and Gallageri) and Batro's which were covered in the original post. They aren't in the same tank as the Pac-Man's though.

 

[Yellowcat]

Hi koltsixx, it seems your new fish are settling in and feeding too, nice! Glad you mentioned a positive reaction to krill from the pacman's, something I've never tried before but thanks to you, I picked up some large frozen krill at my LFS today and will try using them whole or chopped tonight as see if they like 'em. If not, I think the giraffe cat who eats everything will like them, maybe some of my other cats too? Since keeping L. Alexandri is a new and ongoing project for both of us, continued observation and experimenting with food items should reveal more of their like's and habits. As do your fish, mine will relocate from time to time during the day. This morning they were stacked together for a bit, the large one on top of the small one in the sunny corner of the tank. A while later the large one moved about a foot away and buried itself in the gravel while the small one stayed in the corner. An hour later the small one moved away and I couldn't find it. In the afternoon the small one was back in the corner again. Today I vacuumed the gravel which also resulted in a 20 percent water change. Water changes always seem to stimulate most fish's appetites so there will be more food experimentation tonight...

 

[koltsixx]

Hello Yellowcat , yeah they seem to be settling in. I believe the bigger Pac-Man's ate 2 Rosy Reds. I'm pretty sure I put in 6 and there's only 4 left that I can see. I have some other Rosies in with the small Pac-Man. Just a place to keep them as I monitor the bigger Pac-Man's feedings. The guppies remain in the tank with the smaller Pac-man's as well since the little guys seem to not be interested in them at all. The smaller Pac-Man's also seem less active. Perhaps because of the Maculata? The Maculata seem to like to dog pile on the Pac-Man's when the Maculata aren't hiding, odd? Still only seen one of the Pac-Man's eat just that once. Same Pac-Man(I recognize this one as his coloration is slightly different also appears to be the widest) has reacted to pellets turning and lunging as the pellets sunk but ultimately didn't eat them.

Speaking of water changes I did one yesterday on all my tanks. I also tried frozen bloodworms yesterday in the evening, hours after the water change but the smaller Pac-Man's showed no visible interest. Surprising to me since the documentation of tubifex worms for fry lead me to believe bloodworms would also be taken. Again, perhaps it's the Maculata who are affecting the Pac-Man's feeding behavior. By the way may I ask what kind of current your Pac-Man's are in? My little guys are in a very low current environment while my larger ones are in a relatively swift current. Just wondering water movement effect on the Pac-Man's. Anayway it's great to hear your experiences and being able to compare them with mine. Thank you Yellowcat

 

[Yellowcat]

A few more clues everyday, eh? I don't know anything about rosy reds other than that some folks use them as feeders as with guppies but perhaps some fish prefer them as they probably taste different or hungry fish don't really care? As mentioned, your different tank mates will likely affect feeding behavior and behavior's overall. As of last night I included krill into the mix. I feed the giraffe cat and pacman cats as if they were in different tanks. The giraffe one gets his usual mix of nightcrawler, frozen bloodworms and pellets mix that I introduce in the middle of the tank. I use a long PVC tube to put in a mix of foods into a specific spot, in this case the corner where the pacman's gather. Last night I put in the giraffe's food as mentioned and then added a mix of frozen bloodworms, cut up small nightcrawler and krill (no pellets) and dropped it down to the pacman cats , both in their corner, with the tube and got an immediate positive reaction, very actively feeding instantly! Sweet! Incidentally I also gave the G cat some krill in his mix and no remains in the morning so good to know it can be part of his menu. (I also gave a bit of krill to my batrochoglanis cat who eats everything but Massivore oddly, and she liked it too.) The current in my big tank is very slow overall, I have a large air stone at each end of the tank, one in the corner the pacman cats like, that creates a bit of vertical current or vertical eddy but I don't think current is a factor that would influence behavior in my case. Once the feeding regimen becomes established, the next question might be growth rates and the like... BTW, my tank PH is 6.8 and water temp is 80 degrees F.

 

[koltsixx]

Lol, yes it would seem so. It's why I love this hobby. Always something new to learn, at least for me. Yes, the rosy are feeders. I wanted guppies or the like so I could try breeding my own supply of food for them, if necessary but none where available.

That's great! I'm glad the Pac-Man's are eating so well for you! And I'm happy your G cat enjoyed them as well. Hmmm, maybe I should try mixing the bloodworms, pellets and krill together as you did. Perhaps there is an element of krill which elicits a feeding response and if the Pac-Man associate that with the bloodworms and pellets maybe I'll have better luck with them taking it. And maybe I should try nightcrawlers and red worms too. I had a red worms break some of my more stubborn eaters such as Tachysurus gracilis? It was sold to me as Pratti but I think it was Gracilis. Sorry I digress.

Wow, that's odd that the Batro eats everything but Massivore. So the Batro eats other sinking pellets? As I stated before mine eat everything. While I don't feed Massivore I do use a sinking wafer, Ken's Ultra Meat Wafer; which is very similar in size and appearance to Massivore. I don't know about taste or scent. Well okay I know that it produces less scent to me both before feeding and after from the water but I don't know how it's perceived by the fish. I have a high protein fry pellet that to my surprise helped wean some of my fish onto pellets. The fish seemed to be more naturally drawn to it coming out of hiding almost as soon as it hit the water. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case with the Pac-Man's.

Interesting coincidence my tank parameters are the same. Well Ph and Temp wise that is. Again thank you for all the valuable sharing of your observations Yellowcat

 

[Yellowcat]

Thanks, I do try to be helpful when I can, if not, I don't usually comment at all. To answer about batrochoglanis, she does like a variety of Hikari pellets, Ken's food sticks, bloodworms, shrimp, nightcrawlers and now krill. When I got her, the guppies in the tank disappeared overnight, no surprise there. With some catfish species kept in aquariums, there are preferences for live foods and dead, frozen or man-made pellets and such. Predator species in the wild have prey fish preferences as do scavenger species that feed on various things. Taste and smell of food items are of utmost importance to catfish, of course. Many we keep are endemic to murky/muddy water in their native rivers where vision isn't a factor, especially for nocturnal feeders. As a lifelong fisherman for a few catfish species, I've learned that even the same species will have food (bait) preferences that vary widely depending on time of year, water temperature, natural forage present and different bodies of water where found. What bait works in one lake or river, won't in another. I could fill up a page about the wide variety of catfish baits that exist but won't. I guess the point is, as with fishing, you just have to experiment to find out what works...

 

[koltsixx]

You're welcome Yellowcat ! I hope to see more posting from you, as I said I've enjoyed reading your experiences. I go on and off with my postings. A lot of it is because of personal issues so it was nice to converse about something positive and that I am passionate about. So again, thank you.

I have definitely seen preferences, but I usually don't pay them much attention unless it's a problem feeder. Luckily for me(knock on wood) most of my fish have been easy enough to get on pellets. I've never considered smell in most cases except surprise at how fast some catfish seem to react to the introduction of food versus others. I don't want to diverge too much but as a for instance my Trachycorystes sense food immediately and are able to locate it with astounding speed and precision. While my Rhinodoras(which are both blind in one eye) take longer. Despite their small eyes my Rhinodoras have learned to respond to other cues such as either sight or vibration so they can compete with the Trachycorystes. The Rhinodoras usually coming out of hiding when I approach their tank.

I bought a small powerhead for the little Pac-Man's. I figured more oxygenation couldn't hurt plus I thought it might move the food around to help entice them to eat pellets. I have to buy a small pvc tube though so I can drop the food Infront of them like you do. I've been dropping the food trying to guess water resistance and movement to make it land on their head or close to their mouths. And I have to consider if I'm going to keep the little Pac-Man's with the Maculata and if not where to put the Maculata if do decide to move them. The larger Pac-Man's only tankmate is a baby Australian Lungfish. Which works out well as he's a slow eater and that gives the Pac-Man's more opportunity to eat versus the Maculata with the little Pac-Man's.

By the way, you mentioned your Maculata's growth before. It only grew about a inch in 9 months correct?

 

[Yellowcat]

On pacman cats, it seems that there is a wealth of information to be found on the species. I've downloaded lots of science-ey stuff about them of late, but haven't had the time to read it all yet. Some interesting facts I've noted are that for one, their population in their native river the Sao Francisco, has been in decline, partly due to several dams that now exist on the river that prevent historical spawning migration, as well as overfishing. The Brazilian Gov't agency involved, is now captive breeding the species and re-introducing them back in to the river to replenish their population there. They have also introduced the species into another river system but what river wasn't named. There have also been proposed or may now exist, captive breeding programs to raise the fish for the food market as they are reported to be quite tasty when properly cooked. Oh my, well it's said that they will grow to 8 kilo's as adults so depending on their growth rate it could become a viable industry there. I have yet to find much on their growth rate but will continue to search to get an idea of what to expect from these tiny examples. I don't know their current status in Brazil as to exports for wild caught/captive bred specimens and the legal status thereof. On the same note, the W. Maculata we are getting here are captive bred in Brazil according to my source for the fish. I'm guessing that they are probably rare in the wild to begin with or over harvested for the aquarium fish trade? As of late I'm seeing them show up for sale in many places, even on eBay. Most seem to be small fish like from 2-4" , ex$pensive yes, apparently worth breeding for that reason alone. Several vendors show photos of striking adult specimens to entice buyers, well like me I must admit! I wanted something I could keep long term in a 50G tank. Having raised and later sold on the larger doradids such as megaladoras/oxydoras/pterodoras species, didn't want any more giants. With the Wertheimeria pair I have that are so very reclusive and as it seems, slow growing, (from 2-1/2" to 3 1/2" in 9 months) sorry to say, if I had it do over again I would probably choose something else..

 

[koltsixx]

Awesome info. Yellowcat ! Really sad to hear they are in decline in their natural environment, but I am happy to hear they are attempting to save them in the wild with captive bed reintroductions to the wild. They truly are a cool fish even if they aren't very active. At least I can always see their eyes poking out of the sand. Better than the view I get of most of my cats except during feedings. Lol And watching them bury themselves is entertaining.

The small Maculata Wes has are captive bred as well. He sourced them from someone I had told him was selling them a while ago. Because of the cost he was hesitant to get them but he too likes them and I guess he couldn't resist. I had seen the source on Facebook promoting his Maculata and as far as I know is the only source for them captive bred. I would have been more specific, but I forgot the Facebook name and account, my apologies. I'm sure I could dig it up though if you want to know. Wes has some adults, wild caught and he shared some pics and a video of them I think with me. I could ask him if it's alright if I share them on here.

I wanted the Maculata because I saw them and thought they looked amazing; the adult size was definitely added benefit. I like Doradidae but like you wanted something that grew to a more manageable size. Slow growth rate though I wasn't expecting or really a priority to me. I have kept Megalodoas, Centrodoras, Lithodoras, Fransicodoras, Rhinodoras and Platydoras so far and now Wertheimeria. In my personal experience Centrodoras and Lithodoras are the most outgoing of the group with Lithodoras being the most outgoing. Mine don't ever hide really and are by far the most active. They easily eat from the surface as well. I do know what you mean about the Maculata. They are surprisingly reclusive but no more so then the other Doradidae I believe. I also wish they grew faster. I had hoped that they might grow at a decent rate until 6 inches or so. Still as one of the smaller Doradidae maybe others will be able to get them to breed in captivity. I personally was hoping to try breeding Rhinodoras or Fransicodoras or Doras Micropoeus in the near future. I was surprised to learn that Francisodoras is a Wertheimerinae. A pretty attractive species in my personal opinion.

 

[koltsixx]

Update: the small Pac-Man are all eating and well. And they even took pellets to my surprise. They aren't easily intimidated at least the small ones as I literally handfed them. I haven't bought a PVC tube yet so I was lowering the food with my hand so I can drop it on their head(again as they seem to show no foraging behavior to me, yet) and one of the little guys leapt up to snatch some krill. Since my hand didn't frighten them, I tried again with a pellet, and they took it. I actually feel better now as I feel I can give them a better diet as I use vita-chem on my pellets. I still plan on giving a varied diet though, throwing in different frozen foods from time to time. My personal observations so far is that these guys seem to be very sight-oriented predators as even frozen food doesn't seem to elicit a response unless it's dropped in view in close proximity to their mouths. Sorry figured it was worth mentioning.