Under Gravel Filters

[jpappy789]

By the way, read through the previous topic...

why would I need to "fabricate a story about using a UGF" when its pretty common knowledge that they're an archaic and outdated system that has been replaced by much better systems? (which was also recently states by your friend oddball)
hahhhaha. Get a clue.

Not going to put words in your mouth but unless you have a legitimate story explaining the drawbacks of an UGF system, based on YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE, I'm not convinced.

Fortunately I'm going to base my opinion on my own experiences not on someone who is just spewing rhetoric.

 

[bitteraspects]

By the way, read through the previous topic...



Not going to put words in your mouth but unless you have a legitimate story explaining the drawbacks of an UGF system, based on YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE, I'm not convinced.

Fortunately I'm going to base my opinion on my own experiences not on someone who is just spewing rhetoric.

i offer you the same challenge as the other two clowns. feel free to find a post where i said "i have no experience with UGF". there is no such post, but if you feel so compelled to wate your time searching for one, far be it from me to stop you.
the only thing youre putting in anyones mouth is your foot in your own mouth.

like i said, feel free to dispute any of the facts presented.
you said yourself, plants with root systems (IE, 90% OF AQUARIUM PLANTS) would not work.
and obviously UGF is not made to be used with sand substrate (as it would obviously fall through the plates, defeating the entire purpose of the "filter"). though you "claim"

sure, sand could be an issue but I believe I have seen ways to get around that

so much for going off of "your own experience" which you obviously have none on this subject, but chose to "spew rhetoric" anyway.

or feel free to dispute the ability for a sponge filter to do the exact same thing as a UGF at a cheaper price (as hobbyists and LFS use them worldwide). or that unlike a UGF, a sponge (or box) filter can do this same job in fully planted, bare bottom, sand bottom, or any other type of aquarium. and do it without making it more difficult to vacuum.



thanks for playing

 

[jpappy789]

How about you then tell us if you have used them before. That would save us all the trouble of having to read your mind.

I said plants with LARGE root systems. I could list several plants species that flourished in my aquarium while using a UGF system. Even the crypts did surprisingly well.

As for sand, I already admitted that its a possible downfall to the filters. Its not something I would attempt to try myself so knock them down a peg if you really feel obliged to...

My whole point was yes, there are filters out there that will outperform UGFs, but you have yet to give a reason as to why they should be disregarded completely. There may be viable alternatives but I believe the original question was "is there anything good at all"...all you've done is try to prove that other filters are better. Not exactly the same thing, is it?

 

[bitteraspects]

im pretty sure i gave quite a few reasons. perhaps you should take the time to read a thread before you respond to it.

and yes, proving that just about every other filter is better in every way (from price to performance), is exactly the same thing. hell, even the people here who are advocating the use of UGF and are currently using them (both out of the box, or a "customized" form), do not use them as their sole means of filtration. thet pretty much speaks for itself.

 

[jpappy789]

Not when the simple answer to the question is "yes, because they work"

I read the thread, thanks for asking though thumbsup I'm not a noob when it comes to answering questions on a forum. What I still have to ask you is have you tried using one? So far it seems to be a no since you've given me no other reason to believe that you have. You can't truly say product A is better than product B when you've only tried one of them...

So far you've said:

1) They're hard to clean - not true

2) You can't have live plants - not true

3) You can't have sand - I will give you that one.

4) Almost every other filter is better - that really depends on the person and their tank.

I've already discussed my experiences with other filters. My tank was cleaner using a RUGF + HOB than it was when I used the same HOB with a Rena XP1 canister. Same bioload too and a heck of a lot more maintenance down the line.

Now the OP is currently using one so obviously the cheapest way to go about things would be to leave it as is...that is, unless its causing some major problem. If it aint broke dont fix it...

 

[Red_Belly_Pacu]

I have a cannister filter and HOB power filters. I would choose an undegravel filter with powerheads over the cannister filter and the HOB powerfilters. You see, I would use the cannister filter and the HOB as the secondary filter to help out the UGF and it is not the other way around.

 

[bitteraspects]

Not when the simple answer to the question is "yes, because they work"

"work" is relative. ive said many times that they are capable of maintaining water parameters, but as any filter, (or even no filter, as bacteria will grow on the surface of the tank/decor/substrate) is capable of doing the same thing, what "work" is it really doing?

I read the thread, thanks for asking though thumbsup I'm not a noob when it comes to answering questions on a forum. What I still have to ask you is have you tried using one? So far it seems to be a no since you've given me no other reason to believe that you have. You can't truly say product A is better than product B when you've only tried one of them...

it only "seems" no, if youre foolish enough to ASSume that you have any clue about my personal experience. like i said. go find a post that says i have no experience. ive never once said that. and since ive had to repeat that to you a few times now, i guess that means youre not capable of deductive reasoning. probably why you chose to ASSume such ridiculous things, rather than focusing on the facts.

So far you've said:

1) They're hard to clean - not true

wrong. the plates make it much harder to vaccum the substrate than it is without them. thats a pretty simple fact.

2) You can't have live plants - not true

having a single crypt or some java ferns tied to a piece of DW, is NOT the same as having a PLANTED tank.

3) You can't have sand - I will give you that one.

no need to "give" me anything. like i said. the facts speak for themselves.

4) Almost every other filter is better - that really depends on the person and their tank.

how so?
if a filter does the exact same thing for cheaper, its better.
if a filter does more for the same price, its better.
if a filter provides the same biological filtration, plus mechanical filtration(and chemical if you need it), its better.
again, speaks for itself.

Now the OP is currently using one so obviously the cheapest way to go about things would be to leave it as is...that is, unless its causing some major problem. If it aint broke dont fix it...

the OP also said he has a 7" jaguar cichlid in the tank, which again (its sad i have to repeat this, when you claim to have read the thread) will dig up and move the substrate, exposing the bare plates and greatly decreasing the effectiveness of the plates.

btw, he also said he has 2 HOB filters as well.

unless you have something new to add, youre really just going in circles.
as am i.
all the information has been posted for both sides of this ridiculous debate. multiple times now. and it should be pretty simple fo ranyone interested to make up their own mind about these outdated filters.
if you have any more questions that you are still confused about, and reading these posts over again doesnt help, feel free to PM me. but there is no reason for me to keep going in circles here. i think the OPs question has been sufficiently answered at this point.

 

[jpappy789]

Vacuuming was not an issue, so no that is not a fact. When I pulled the grates up everything was clean. No gunk got trapped underneath. If you do your weekly maintenance there will be no issues. This has been supported by other people who have actually used these systems.

My tank was more than just a single crypt and some java ferns...more like four or five large crypts, rotala, vallisneria, wisteria, dwarf sags, and loads of other plants I had tried over the course of using an UGF/RUGF. None of them suffered due to the filtration up until the tank was scrapped. I know what a planted tank is, especially when I'm referring to the one that I personally maintained, so quit insulting my intelligence when it seems YOU are the one who doesn't have all the facts nor the experience. If you would be so kind as to explain where you are getting these "facts" it would help immensely. Otherwise I can only assume that your just repeating the same misunderstood "facts" that I've seen thrown about on other forums. No one can read your mind so with holding your personal experience only leads to this assumption. I'm not going to find what you haven't posted.

I see where there could be an issue with the OP's setup but if there has yet to be any problems I see no reason to suddenly change things. My main point is that there is nothing to say that UGF's are outdated or outperformed or whatever in all situations as you seem to be implying.

 

[CornBread]

I have a ? about my tank now i have african cics but they only dig enough to lay in not all the way to the bottom of the glass. Now I have a UGF sitting in my garage and I was wondering if that would help on the growth of my fish and also what should I use a powerhead with or without reverse or a high powered air pump. Please feel free to send private messages to explain in detail or just post your choice. Thanks to all

 

[Pharaoh]

Let's keep something in mind when discussing topics from here on out. Lets just take the standpoint that if you are going to stand behind a topic 100%, you should provide proof as to why. I am referring to both sides of this dispute to keep things clean.

The only solution here would be to do an experiment between the two. Two identical tanks side by side. One with an UGF, one without.

Until then, I am afraid we will always come to the same conclusion.