What is the smallest shark?

[alexanian]

Firstly kamikazie thank you for a voice of reason among this selfrighteous bunch. I wrote my last post in orther to expose the double standards on this forum. You have a bunch of threads and videos being posted of them feeding their monsters feeders and everybody is like wow that's so cool and here everybody is concerned about one shark dieing or being sold at the fish market and even calling me a moron which was totally uncalled for. I also bet most of the people saying this have kept a fish that at some point got eaten by another fish since I've seen alot of posts regarding possible tankmates where people state that this fish will be eaten.

That being said I would never keep it in unadequate and poor conditions and I never said that I will, I specifically stated that if I do it will be a dedicated tank so it will be just the shark no other animals from other parts of the world. I also said that I would only do it afer an extensive research of the water parameters it lives in the wild and replicate them in the aquaria. I also said I could do water changes with the sea water to keep the shark acclimated to it's native waters and keep it immune to the parasites or diseases from the wild.

Other then that keeping a shark that is already being commercially used and selling it to the fishery, is not wrong in any way, at least not more then fishing it for the fish market directly or all those farmers that keep sheeps and cows till they get bigger and then sloughter them or the fish farms raising fish and everyone here eats it with apettite. Are all those people morons too Comatose or are you feeling like a hypocrite a little bit now? I bet no one here felt bad for a fish on their plate when they were consuming it.
And I doubt that a native species being re introduced to the wild or being sold to the fish market will take away anyones rights.

 

[Purevil21]

Everyone,

This thread is getting way out of hand. I think the personal attacks are very much taking away from the issue at hand. I have no problems with you posting a legitimate question, I do have a problem with you posting a legitimate question in the wrong subforum and then pouting when no one tells you what you want to hear. As I said before, all this is nonsense. There is NO shark that meets the criteria you were originally looking for. That's it, end of story. Please stop with this endless war of words about keeping a shark that will outgrow your system and then doing goodness knows what with it. The Florida Everglades are overrun with snakes from owners who dumped them into the wild when they got too big, you are wanting to become part of the problem with our ecosystem. Captive animals should be just that, captive. Sharks are not an agricultural creature, as a matter of fact their meat is nearly worthless. The practice of shark finning is being condemned by most civilized countries, this whole idea of yours is madness and it stands against everything an aquarists should stand for. Please do the responsible thing. There are sharks you can keep for life, and properly care for. Just because they don't "look like a shark" to you doesn't mean they aren't. Either suck it up and get one of those, or go another direction with your tank. There are PLENTY of predatory fish that can be kept in a 180 gallon tank.

 

[Zoodiver]

I'm going to step in quick and just say for EVERYONE - keep it clean, friendly and professional here. Name calling etc won't be tolerated.


That being said, I'll toss in my $.02 on a few things. Trying to obtain a shark (or any pet) for only a short amount of time is usually considered in poor taste. Caring for them should be a life long taks you are willing to take on.
There are a few things that might be a bit off in your reasoning, and as someone with shark husbandry (including rehab and release) experience, I'll try to explain it a bit for you.
Many of the members on this forum are in the US. It's highly illegal here to release animals. There are many studies that show how poorly they respond to being released from captive / controlled settings into the wild. There are many things you need to do to ensure the animals will live after leaving captive care, and it's not an easy thing to do by any means.

None of the reasons given were valid, let's review:
-Loosing the ability to hunt/ not recognizing natural prey ; I've seen plenty of wild species being released after being in capivity and haven't lost abilty to hunt also check my argument about captive breed angels hunting neons.
- Not used to new water ; what new water? the new water it was originaly cought from and which was replicated in the tank
- Can't build up its immune system from standard bacteria found in the wild ; again it will be wild cought so it will have immunity being that it's already coming from the same waters.
- and the most common argument being : IT WILL DIE ; ???

Allow me a minute to validate some of those.

Sharks WILL lose some of the ability to hunt for themselves in many circumstances when being fed in a controlled environment.

Once acclimated to a stable temp, many cannot handle the seasonal changes that occur in the wild. As an example, a captive nurse shark in FL has been raised for 5 years at 80F. If you released it to the wild here in FL (a place where they are naturally found), it would see temps into the mid 90F and as low 50F in the winter. That low temp would cause many of the biological processes to shut down.

There are many things that capitve fish ecnounter that aren't in the native waters. There is the risk that they will introduce these things to the wild, and harm wild populations. Also, the immune system does weaken slightly when not being tested or used as much. So introducing an animal like that back into a situation where it is put under stress can lead to issues.

Many of the animals released without taking the proper steps will die. It's a proven fact that is well known by the people who deal with this type of process on a day to day basis.

 

[Good_Times]

Woaw it's gettin hot in here!

I have to agree. NASA didn't say gosh darn it, we really wanted to go to the moon but since everyone says it cant be done we might as well stop trying. I mean heck even the largest fish (whale sharks) are being kept at public aquariums. I also believe that animals can be taught to hunt and be rehabilitated to survive in the wild. Think of captive breeding projects like species of sturgeon which are reared in ponds and released back into the rivers. I doubt these programs would continue if people believed all the released fish will die due to malnutrition.

 

[alexanian]

I'm going to step in quick and just say for EVERYONE - keep it clean, friendly and professional here. Name calling etc won't be tolerated.

Thank you for cleaning it up from the personal insults, it was hurtful and thank you for validating with scientific facts. It was all I was asking about and to figure if there can be a way to do it. I realize it is partially my fault for posting in the general discussion and for that I appologize, but I posted it before realizing there was a shark subforum so I just left it instead of posting again, but I never thought that what happened would happen.

Thanks to all who tried to reply professionally

 

[turbo253]

Well its been awhile since I've posted on here but I figure this would be a good on to weigh in on since I was once in the same boat as the OP. When I first go into keeping sharks I had no plans on having swimming pools as aquariums but wanted a "real looking shark". I figured at best I would get a 500 gal stick a black tip in there and call it a day. I figured I would just give it away when it go too big or figure out how to let it go into the wild.

Well Guess what? Its a pretty piss poor attitude to have and after keeping a nurse shark early on and seeing these animals are very intelligent and more like a cat or dog than a gold fish I became attached and the idea of dumping it off to a LFS or letting it go in the wild to fend for itself seemed kind of cold to do to your pet. No?
Thats the moral end of it for me.

And here is some real life observations. For those of you who don't know I have a collection a large sharks that would blow most peoples minds.
For one I agree with zoodiver (matt... sorry I didn't get back to you while I was in FL things got way too hectic. I'll pm you) on the fact that they will lose some of there instinct to hunt. I have some of the most aggressive sharks out there and they can't even catch some grunts that are right in there face. I have also seen that my sharks associate people with food. That being said would you really want your shark working its way into populated areas. I now this wouldn't be something to worry about with a a smooth hound but for me it was a lot to think about with large lemon or bull shark. Its sounds to me like the OP really wants the shark cause he thinks its cool not because he really wants to keep and enjoy elasmobranch. Sharks and rays are a commitment not something to look at till they become inconvenient. If thats your plan its a damn shame for the fish

 

[Comatose]

Woaw it's gettin hot in here!

I have to agree. NASA didn't say gosh darn it, we really wanted to go to the moon but since everyone says it cant be done we might as well stop trying. I mean heck even the largest fish (whale sharks) are being kept at public aquariums. I also believe that animals can be taught to hunt and be rehabilitated to survive in the wild. Think of captive breeding projects like species of sturgeon which are reared in ponds and released back into the rivers. I doubt these programs would continue if people believed all the released fish will die due to malnutrition.

It's already been established that reintroduction programs do happen, but out of scientific necessity, not a desire to keep animals in the most convenient way possible.

Thank you for cleaning it up from the personal insults, it was hurtful and thank you for validating with scientific facts. It was all I was asking about and to figure if there can be a way to do it. I realize it is partially my fault for posting in the general discussion and for that I appologize, but I posted it before realizing there was a shark subforum so I just left it instead of posting again, but I never thought that what happened would happen.

Thanks to all who tried to reply professionally

Oh way to play the victim. Your posts got deleted as much as mine did. Who was it that referred to everyone here as a 'self righteous bunch'? And for the record, I, along with everyone else did reply professionally. When you didn't get the answer you wanted you were treated in a way that fit your behavior. When you suggested that perhaps you'd keep an animal for a while, then sell it to slaughter in the company of people who, like myself, aspire to keep these animals as ethically as possible, and go to great pains and expense to do so, most people responded with the utter disgust the situation warranted. Zoodiver simply echoed what has already been said, albeit in a much more polite and patient manner. I applaud him for that, but it's a virtue I don't have, and if I did I wouldn't waste it on you.

You can go ahead and listen to the few inexperienced people who agree with you and ignore the preponderance of feedback advising against it from people that have actually kept sharks... just don't expect people, me espescially, to be all hugs and kisses cross your arms, shake your head and refuse to listen to anything you don't want to hear.

 

[alexanian]

Oh way to play the victim. Your posts got deleted as much as mine did. Who was it that referred to everyone here as a 'self righteous bunch'? And for the record, I, along with everyone else did reply professionally. When you didn't get the answer you wanted you were treated in a way that fit your behavior. When you suggested that perhaps you'd keep an animal for a while, then sell it to slaughter in the company of people who, like myself, aspire to keep these animals as ethically as possible, and go to great pains and expense to do so, most people responded with the utter disgust the situation warranted. Zoodiver simply echoed what has already been said, albeit in a much more polite and patient manner. I applaud him for that, but it's a virtue I don't have, and if I did I wouldn't waste it on you.

It's ok to state ur opinion even if it is with disguist and I'm not objecting those, but ur the only one that used insulting words. If you can't reply in a polite manner refrain from replying please.

Turbo thank you for sharing you early expeiences and I see that you went through the same desires. I assure you that if I end up keeping a shark weather big or small I intend to give it the best care. I'm also doing research as to see if I can possibly rehome it after having it in my care by searching for any research facilities or marine zoo that would be interested in taking it. All I'm saying is that I will not keep a shark that can potentially outgrow my tank unless I first figure out where to go with it before I even get it. Pool is not an option for me since I live in an apartment.
As for giving it for human consumption, which is smth I would prefer not to do, but it is a possibility, I believe is a more matter of ones sensitivity rather then ethics. We all eat sloughtered animals even if we don't keep them ourselves, and in Morocco shark meat is common and it's being sold in almost every fishery and on the menu in most restaurants.
When I opened the subject I was looking for ideas and trying to explore the possibilities before I venture down this road. Constructive criticism is always welcome but not insults.

 

[Comatose]

It's ok to state ur opinion even if it is with disguist and I'm not objecting those, but ur the only one that used insulting words. If you can't reply in a polite manner refrain from replying please.

Oh, you mean like these insulting words?

Firstly kamikazie thank you for a voice of reason among this selfrighteous bunch.

You had just as many posts deleted as I did for the same reason.

Turbo thank you for sharing you early expeiences and I see that you went through the same desires. I assure you that if I end up keeping a shark weather big or small I intend to give it the best care. I'm also doing research as to see if I can possibly rehome it after having it in my care by searching for any research facilities or marine zoo that would be interested in taking it. All I'm saying is that I will not keep a shark that can potentially outgrow my tank unless I first figure out where to go with it before I even get it. Pool is not an option for me since I live in an apartment.
As for giving it for human consumption, which is smth I would prefer not to do, but it is a possibility, I believe is a more matter of ones sensitivity rather then ethics. We all eat sloughtered animals even if we don't keep them ourselves, and in Morocco shark meat is common and it's being sold in almost every fishery and on the menu in most restaurants.
When I opened the subject I was looking for ideas and trying to explore the possibilities before I venture down this road. Constructive criticism is always welcome but not insults.

I love how now that a mod is involved you turn into a sycophantic crybaby, play the victim and pretend to take Zoo's and Turbo's advice while still saying 'I'm going to do whatever I want regardless of my inability, advice from experts, and the welfare of the animals involved. Your saying 'Well, cows are going to be slaughtered anyway, so why not torture the hell out of them first?'

People like you turn up all the time in the hobby. It starts with a question like 'What's the [insert easily Googled parameter here, ie, smallest or easiest to keep] species of [insert animal that is very difficult to keep]'. People generally respond with reserved patience, and explain that the reality is there's no convenient way to keep the animal in question. Noob then responds asking why, proposing several different convenient ways of keeping an animal that is very difficult to keep, assuming no one has ever thought of them before. Again, people respond, trying to explain something Noob doesn't want to hear. It goes on like that until this happens - Noob decides he knows best, the experts are wrong, and the one or two inexperienced keepers that agree with him are right.

I don't care how patient other people are with you. I dole out helpful advice to those who seek and accept it, but I also call them like I see them. You are selfish, you are lazy, and I hope to God those two qualities keep you from obtaining and destroying any of these beautiful animals.

 

[bigcatlover]

Smallest one I know of is Hasselt’s Bamboo Shark (Chiloscyllium hasseltii), needs a min of 180 gallons, grows to around 2' http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+41+3115&pcatid=3115, but I'm no expert in this particular area, I only know about it because I like to look at the random fish on live aquaria haha.

That is a cool ass fish! Kinda makes me want a marine set up!!!!