What kind is my lonely datnoid?
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
One and a half year update. The dat has been in one of the 4500 gal for about a year now. Despite having been one of the smallest fish in there, it has done well, except some ****hole of a tank mate took one eye out a few months back.
It still has these periods of slime clumps, perhaps once in several months.
It appears to have lost interest in pellets and always goes after thawed fish.
I guesstimate its size at about a foot now.
This is still my one and only datnoid I've ever had.
It still has these periods of slime clumps, perhaps once in several months.
It appears to have lost interest in pellets and always goes after thawed fish.
I guesstimate its size at about a foot now.
This is still my one and only datnoid I've ever had.
Wow it sure has grown Viktor, it's a survivor! Btw, I'm no medical expert but those white lumps look possibly like some kind of lymphocystis, but don't take my word for it. Just out of curiosity (and not saying for sure it would cure/prevent your Dat's recurring condition), are you running a UV sterilizer on that tank?
Thank you.
I have no clue about this either but I think these are made of slime, not lymph, because the slime is usually the first to react to a hostile environment and as this fish seems to require brackish water ideally, this is a likely reaction to the freshwater it is kept in. Cysts filled with lymph I think are hard and protrude from under skin, pushing up scales etc., while the slime is of course the most superficial and soft mucus layer.
No, I don't run a UV on this, or any of my systems.
kendragon
taught me on what UV set up I'd need... and to do it right and sensibly, I'd need $5K-$10 for starters on this 23,000 gal system, even with a large DIY portion. Ain't got that yet at hand. The hope is after we open for business, we'd start saving toward this goal. If you are interested, I can fetch a link to where Ken is kindly calculating out and explaining what is needed for a UV sterilizer on this 23,000 gal with the current 40,000 gal per hour turnover.
Gotcha, then likely not lymphocystis as you describe, hope it gets over that but I guess w/o a real brackish set-up it'll be a challenge; at least he seems to be coping with it.Thank you.
I have no clue about this either but I think these are made of slime, not lymph, because the slime is usually the first to react to a hostile environment and as this fish seems to require brackish water ideally, this is a likely reaction to the freshwater it is kept in. Cysts filled with lymph I think are hard and protrude from under skin, pushing up scales etc., while the slime is of course the most superficial and soft mucus layer.
No, I don't run a UV on this, or any of my systems.
No worries about the UV info, was just curious -- in fact I'm contemplating moving away from UV (which I have on all 4 tanks), due to starting to question that if in my situation (mostly solo fish, quite static tanks) they're really necessary. However, agreed UV would be a great benefit with the huge tanks/gallons/possibly connected systems you're running, some day I'm sure you'll have that extra $5-10.
Wow. That is something else. Even without ideal conditions, you still grew this guy to more than a typical max. A truly ba fish there. Oversized, one eyed, spotty bad boy. Lots of character.
victor my friend. i used to have an small AT that got the same stuff. i treated it with salt and an med called parazin p by waterlife. I got told it is called epistyles and that datnioides polota is very prone for this parasite. the lives with this parasite all its life and it comes and goes. the paratise has an outbreak when to much stress on the fish.
I’ve dealt with epostylis on my 9” silver dat. This particular dat specie is known to get this. The white fungus looking things are 100% from damage and stress.
My 13” NGT and indos was harassing and chasing this silver. Had white patches on the body and dorsal spikes looked cocaine dipped too. Always thought it was fungus. I separated the thing to a 75g and treated with tea tree oil. It barely did anything cuz I figured the dosage wasn’t high enough. Didn’t want to overdose. So I just netted it out and treated the affected areas on my floor by rubbing my fingers and tea tree napkin on it. Lol. The white patch areas will turn a bit red, but will begin the process of healing.
I’ve done this separation several times. Once the silver looks better. Goes back to the main tank. Then It gets beat again and the white stuff comes back. Long story short, the best cure is a stress free environment, and not suffer any scrapes. Rock salt seems to provide an aid. I’m regularly dosing 1.50-1.75 cups per 100 gallons. There are some mentionings on Facebook from overseas that prazi metro type parasite meds helps remedy. I’ve never tried this, but I believe if u rub off the epsotylis. The silver datter will heal on its own in a clean stress free environment. I still have my healthy silver and eostylis free for months. Still gets chased periodically but no damage occurs. Hope this lengthy post of mine helps.
This is exactly my experience. Its an nasty parasite thats hard to get rid of once established.
My silver dat got it maybe 10 times before i took him down for good. He got worse for every time and started to get the fungus in his mouth.
The med im used against this is called parazin p and made by waterlife. Its active ingredient is diflubenzuron.
Salt, parazin p, well oxygenated water and lots of flow will take care of many diffrent parasites including lernia and anchor worms.
Tobiassorensen
Vancouver_98683
Thank you guys so much for your help. I had no idea what this is and never heard of the epistylis, which appears to be a protozoa.Striped Bass and Other Morone Culture
John A. Plumb, in Developments in Aquaculture and Fisheries Science, 1997
11.6.2.2 Epistylis
There are several species of Epistylis that infect the skin, fins, and gills of fish (Esch et al., 1976). The urn shaped organism, which is adorned by a ring of cilia on the distal end, is at the terminus of a dichotomous stalk that, in turn, attaches by a disk to hard surfaces of the host such as spines, scales, or gill covers. Groups of Epistylis form a colony (Figure 11.11). These parasites cause irritation and inflammation of the epithelium of the host at the point of attachmentwhich may provide a site for secondary infections of Aeromonashydrophila. The parasites feed primarily on bacteria and organic material in the water, but they erode scales and hard spines of fins where they attach. Other than the injury incurred by attachment, they are seldom harmful to the host unless there are large masses of these parasites.
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https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/species/disease/pdfs/fishdiseases/epistylis.pdf
Epistylis (Heteropolaria)
I. Causative Agent and Disease
Epistylis is a sessile, ciliated freshwater protozoan that propagates as colonies at the ends of non-contractile stalks on the skin and sometimes the gills of fish. This organism is not a true parasite but an epibiont utilizing fish as a substrate for attachment that will cause tissue necrosis from secreted proteolytic enzymes. This biofouling and tissue damage results in osmoregulatory stress and secondary invasion by opportunistic bacteria and water molds. This protozoan exists worldwide.
II. Host Species
All species of salmonids are susceptible, but infestations are more common in catfish and other warmwater fish species including their egg masses.
III. Clinical Signs
Flashing is a nonspecific sign of external attachment by any parasite or epibiont. Infested fish may also produce excessive external mucus and exhibit white or hemorrhagic lesions.
IV. Transmission
This organism reproduces by binary fission and is horizontally transmitted from fish to fish by transformation of the zooid (bell shaped body) into a discshaped ciliated telotroch. Slow water flows with high organic loads and abundant bacteria on which it feeds favor the colonization of this protozoan.
V. Diagnosis
Diagnosis is made by observation of the live protozoan in wet mounts of skin scrapes. The colonies appear like a cluster of bluebells growing on stalks attached to the fish by a disc. Epistylis has branched non-contractile stalks.
VI. Prognosis for Host
The prognosis for an infested fish is good if organism numbers are low and fish are not stressed. Heavy colonial growth in a hatchery setting must be treated with salt or chemicals (formalin or hydrogen peroxide) to reduce numbers of protozoa and prevent secondary infections by bacteria and water molds. Infestation is a sign of poor water quality that should be improved.
VII. Human Health Signifcance
There are no human health concerns associated with Epistylis.
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http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/SRAC-Publication-No.-4701-Protozoan-Parasites.pdf
Epistylis and Heteropolaria
The protozoan parasites Epistylis and Heteropolaria are very similar. They are single-celled, but live in stalked colonies (Fig. 9). The branching stalks are rigid and do not contract; the cells at the ends of the stalks are called zooids. They contain cilia around the oral opening and contract when feeding. Epistylis or Heteropolaria colonies on fish resemble white tufts of fungus (Fig. 10), but can be differentiated from fungus by microscopic examination. These parasites are usually found on the skin and fins. The base of the stalk attaches to a hard, calcified surface such as scales and fin rays or spines. Epistylis and Heteropolaria reproduce by budding and form a teletroch or motile juvenile stage. The teletroch produces a stalk and uses it to attach to an existing colony. Epistylis is often an ectocommensal in that it simply attaches to the fish and feeds on environmental debris such as bacteria. Poor quality water encourages the growth of Epistylis on fish. These parasites can weaken and kill fish. Ulcers caused by Epistylis infections may make fish more vulnerable to bacterial infections. For example, red sore disease involves the combination of Aeromonas bacteria and Epistylis. The classic treatment for Epistylis and Heteropolaria infections is uniodized salt (sodium chloride).
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