When does this end?

[jjohnwm]

I find it at once humorous, sad and accurate when the OP refers to the "manufacturing" of these goofy cartoon critters. Breeders long ago perfected the art and science of controlled devolution, which might not be a real word but certainly should be. They create life-forms for vanity and/or profit, with no foresight or responsibility required.

Most aquarists are guilty to some extent of peeing in the gene pool. At its most common level, it consists of coddling and nurturing entire hatches of fry to maximize production. Instead of a fraction of a percent of them making it to adulthood...the absolute strongest, fastest, smartest, luckiest few...we strive to save them all, either because they're so cute, or because each dead one translates to a bit less profit at selling or trade-in time.

Hybridizers continue their insane quest to cross everything with everything else. Then they fight and argue about the names to apply to these mutts. Threads are started to ask if the Super Cross-shingled Red/Green Purple-eyed Dragonburp Snotsucker they were sold...is actually something else. Maybe a Red/Blue? Maybe Mauve-eyed? Maybe...heaven forbid!...it isn't even a true Snotsucker at all! And...is it high-quality?

And now, we have the DNA injectors and the gene splicers and the gamma ray irradiators and who-knows-what else. Are they creating GMO's? Or maybe just GFUO's?

When will it end? Simple; it will never end. Combine greed, vanity and irresponsibility in equal portions...add a dash of short-sightedness...season with a touch of Idon'tcareaboutanything...and you have a recipe for the kind of mess that can only get worse as time passes.

The best reason for doing something is always, "because we can".

I really hope this is one of those cases where the written word doesn't capture the true intent of a sarcastic or humorous statement.

 

[Cal Amari]

At its most common level, it consists of coddling and nurturing entire hatches of fry to maximize production. Instead of a fraction of a percent of them making it to adulthood...the absolute strongest, fastest, smartest, luckiest few...we strive to save them all,

Are we still talking about the fish or have we moved on to people now?

 

[Kayden]

All hybrid, modified, or linebred fish are WRONG and should not be in the hobby. Down to the very last flowerhorn and electric blue acara. Goldfish and koi get a pass for being done 2000ish years ago but other than that every single pumped out monstrosity damages an individual fish's well being, the genetic line of said fish, and any possible conservation efforts for the species in the future.

Just a horrible practice and the glofish thing is even worse. They are made to be a room decoration and not a fish. Why not just buy a lava lamp other than playing God. SMH

 

[jjohnwm]

All hybrid, modified, or linebred fish are WRONG and should not be in the hobby. Down to the very last flowerhorn and electric blue acara. Goldfish and koi get a pass for being done 2000ish years ago but other than that every single pumped out monstrosity damages an individual fish's well being, the genetic line of said fish, and any possible conservation efforts for the species in the future.

Just a horrible practice and the glofish thing is even worse. They are made to be a room decoration and not a fish. Why not just buy a lava lamp other than playing God. SMH

Don't beat around the bush; come right out and say how you really feel!

I agree with the sentiment, and the delivery...well, hell, it makes me sound downright tolerant...

 

[Flaring Afro]

I don't think it's fair to say all of it is wrong for the same reason that it wasn't wrong to domesticate wolves into dogs. Sure not all breeding is ethical, but that doesn't mean you can't do it right.

I'd be willing to bet many of the fish in PetSmart and other chain stores are very much inbred and have health issues that they shouldn't. Many wild caught fish also are captured in inhumane and damaging ways, not to mention the environmental concerns from it in some areas.

In the end fish keeping isn't much different than shopping for groceries. You can do it ethically but this is difficult and it costs a lot more.

 

[Toby_H]

We are all in the same boat here. And for those of us that can laugh at ourselves, cheers. For those that take ourselves too seriously, I wish you peace.

We all draw a line somewhere and defend what's on our side of the line and critique what's on the other side. I don't like hybrids, I don't like anything that changes the body shape. But I like some of the unique colors (such as the Blue Dempseys). So that's where I draw my line. And I silently judge those who live on the "wrong" side of my line.

But I also know that I like some stuff that is on the "wrong" side of some other people's line. And that's fine, you're allowed to be wrong. Of course I say that tongue in cheek. Because I understand, as several others have already pointed out, everything we do in the hobby is a bastardization of nature.

So by all means, find your line. But lets all try not to be holier than thou when judging others for having a different line. Or at least lets judge each other with a smile.

 

[jjohnwm]

We all draw a line somewhere and defend what's on our side of the line...And I silently judge those who live on the "wrong" side of my line.

"Silently"???

Where's the fun in that?

 

[phreeflow]

While the glowing gene may not necessarily harm the fish, the idea of splicing saltwater coral or jellyfish genes into a freshwater fish is an odd ethical issue. So what exactly is a Glofish…can it still even be considered a freshwater fish at this point? Part invertebrate??

What’s even more mind boggling is the idea that companies can patent living creatures.

 

[RyanScanner]

Do they actually glow in the dark?

 

[Kayden]

Don't beat around the bush; come right out and say how you really feel!

I agree with the sentiment, and the delivery...well, hell, it makes me sound downright tolerant...

Apologies! This just gets me very very fired up.

I don't think it's fair to say all of it is wrong for the same reason that it wasn't wrong to domesticate wolves into dogs. Sure not all breeding is ethical, but that doesn't mean you can't do it right.

I'd be willing to bet many of the fish in PetSmart and other chain stores are very much inbred and have health issues that they shouldn't. Many wild caught fish also are captured in inhumane and damaging ways, not to mention the environmental concerns from it in some areas.

In the end fish keeping isn't much different than shopping for groceries. You can do it ethically but this is difficult and it costs a lot more.

Wolve to dogs is fine, the "designer" breeds are even crueler than what we have done to fish. But don't get me started on that tangent LOL. It is very tue about the inbreeding, guppies and bettas used to be simple fish, but genes were introduced and they were line bred so much it is rare to see them over a year old in this hobby unless you get them from a GOOD breeder.

And WC is a whole other story. The "unsustainability" of it is far overblown, and all the damaging ways of capture (i.e. cyanide) were banned decades ago. Wild caught fish helps the indigenous economy, provides healthy fish to the hobby, and allows for sampling and conservation efforts to be done far more effectively. Organizations like project piabia are popping up to spread awareness of how much the wild aquarium fish trade has progressed.

The difference between fishkeeping and groceries is you are not signing up for long term care of a living animal and therefore are not obligated to give it the best live possible.

We are all in the same boat here. And for those of us that can laugh at ourselves, cheers. For those that take ourselves too seriously, I wish you peace.

We all draw a line somewhere and defend what's on our side of the line and critique what's on the other side. I don't like hybrids, I don't like anything that changes the body shape. But I like some of the unique colors (such as the Blue Dempseys). So that's where I draw my line. And I silently judge those who live on the "wrong" side of my line.

But I also know that I like some stuff that is on the "wrong" side of some other people's line. And that's fine, you're allowed to be wrong. Of course I say that tongue in cheek. Because I understand, as several others have already pointed out, everything we do in the hobby is a bastardization of nature.

So by all means, find your line. But lets all try not to be holier than thou when judging others for having a different line. Or at least lets judge each other with a smile.

Trust me Im smiling this whole time LOL. don't mean to be holier than thou at all, just voicing an opinion I believe needs to be heard more.

Unique colors are great, as most are naturally occurring mutations, no problem with that at all.

The issue with the "lines" is that someone's line is genetically modifying dolphins with no fins, eyes, and to fell extra pain so they can hit them with a baseball bat and hear them squeal. Somewhere in between "having pets and eating animals is evil" and "torturing animals for pleasure is a constitutional right" there is an objective moral boundry, all I am arguing is that we crossed it a long time ago and it still is not to late to quit while we are ahead.

I am all for people keeping what they want, but when I order fish for stores I will do my part and not order anything that i know will not have a good quality of life. And I will continue to educate people that dont understand why I dont sell glofish or flowerhorns, hopefully that resonates with them and they choose to get something that I have, but if not there are many many others stores and people that will sell them an "Ultimate Glo Dragon Kamfa f97 with Bluetooth speakers".