Dumb question about sumps...

dogofwar

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I use "dump" (overhead) filters on many of my large tanks. They're far superior to sumps in many ways: less head loss, no fiddling with overflows, basically unlimited capacity, easy to clean, you can grow plants in them, etc.

Buy a sump and modify it, if you want, but most of mine are simple Rubbermaid-style bins with three holes in the bottom: 1) a fitting screwed into the bottom of the bin for a pump in the tank to bring water to the filter and 2, 3) Holes in the bottom of the filter for the water to "dump" back into the tank via gravity.

I periodically siphon gunk out of them and a couple of times per year unhook the pump and completely dump them into the sink to remove any detritus or gunk in them. Many of mine have Pothos, peace lilies and other plants growing out of them to add to the filtration.

You can also use decorative containers and other bins if you want them to look nice :)
 

jjohnwm

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Can't resist throwing my usual "simpler is better" oar into the water here. :) You know the old adage that claims there are no dumb questions? That's utter nonsense; there are plenty of dumb questions, just look around this forum to prove it...but yours is not one of them. :)

Obviously, you can do what many others do, using valves and variable speed control pumps and assorted doodads to *balance" input/output and "dial in" your sump.

It can also be much much simpler, especially if you are willing to drill your tank. Use an online chart to determine the size of pipe that will comfortably handle your pump's flow rate. Put in at least two bulkheads that size, as close to the top of your tank as possible. You can always add elbows that extend down to the bottom to pick up water from the lower level, but you always need to have a breather hole drilled at the top to prevent the formation of a siphon.

The outside of the bulkhead is simply plumbed down to the sump, no valves or other gadgets needed. The pump can be run at full speed...in fact, all of mine are of non-variable-speed design. If I have a pump that puts out X gph, I guarantee I will find a use for every last one of those gph, no "dialing down" desired or required. If for some reason you think you have too much flow...you can always use T's/manifolds/valves to split the output and direct some of it elsewhere...a protein skimmer, a "reactor" of some sort or even a simple directed jet to create surface aeration or keep areas of the bottom clean of accumulated debris.

Some folks say that big powerful pumps, run at halfspeed or whatever, will last longer. Maybe that's true, I dunno, but I have had no longevity problems with short-lived pumps being run at red-faced maximum 24/7. I buy pumps that have only two speeds: On and Off. But, heavens, if I want to turn them On or Off, I actually need to unplug or plug them in; I can't phone them and tell them what I want them to do. Disgusting, huh?

Make sure the sump is large enough to contain all the "flowdown" from the tank when the power goes out. Make sure the pump chamber is large enough that it isn't immediately pumped out if the overflow drains in the tank are momentarily plugged, perhaps by you during some maintenance, perhaps by accident. With a redundant second drain, this is virtually impossible. Too small a pump chamber can create problems if you remove a large rock or decoration, or perhaps scoop out some water to remove some fish...a small chamber can have the water level dropped far enough for the pump to start sucking air.

Remember that the pump chamber is the only place in the whole system that changes in the water volume will actually be visible. A 6x2-foot tank has 12 square feet of water surface from which evaporation can occur...but if the pump chamber is 1x1-foot in size, the water level in that chamber will drop twelve times faster than you are expecting, while the tank will remain "full".

With an overhead sump set-up, the display tank is actually the "sump"; the pump, or at least the water intake, will be in the tank. When using one, you need to make sure there is enough spare volume in the display tank to contain all the water draindown from the overhead chamber when the power goes out. Depending upon the size of the two units, this might require you to keep the water level in the display tank lower than you might want it to be for cosmetic purposes.

Sumps make perfect sense when you use them for awhile. PITA to try to explain; easy to understand when you're looking at one. Lots of ways to do it...but do it! You will never go back to leaky squeaky sealed canisters. :)
 

esoxlucius

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This is about as basic a video as you'll get on overhead sumps. Take the basic idea and tweak it accordingly. As with all sumps, they are highly customisable.

I'm toying with the idea of building a complete new canopy for my 360 and incorporating an overhead sump in it.

Just promise us one thing? You don't pull the trigger on that Eshopps one! That price is eye watering for something that, well, look at how much Joey's build cost him!


 

FINWIN

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One thing I do to avoid overflows to the floor or other, especially because (outside) rain can over flow my tanks, and sumps,
or my lack of sufficient attention when refilling after a water change.
I use these low tech redundant overflow contraptions.
View attachment 1539953
View attachment 1539951
View attachment 1539954
The outflow tube, can be aimed into a buck (or at a drain), or my case, a specific area of the garden, to divert any excess.
The video below is not mine, but where I got the plans.
So one regular overflow and one emergency.

The eschops is pricey...gets high ratings but sheesh.

At
jjohnwm jjohnwm ,

How the heck do you know max safe fill volume of the sump? Say if I have a 150 tank and the sump is a 30, what's a safe max line, 27 gallons? Or is that trial and error test and mark a line?

Maybe one of those big assed barrel filters, would work lol.
 
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jjohnwm

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jjohnwm jjohnwm ,

How the heck do you know max safe fill volume of the sump? Say if I have a 150 tank and the sump is a 30, what's a safe max line, 27 gallons? Or is that trial and error test and mark a line?
Trial and error is all I do. Turn off pumps, fill the tank until it starts to overflow into the sump, keep filling slowly until the water gets as close to the top as you are comfortable with. Stop adding water and make sure that the draindown has finished. Now turn your pump back on; the water level in the sump will fall while the tank level will rise slightly. When it's stabilized, mark the sump at the level where the water is, and now you know the maximum you can safely have in the operating system without needing to worry about overflowing the sump in case of a power outage. When you do topups for any reason...evaporation, after removal of some water or some decor, whatever...just slowly fill the running system until you hit that line and you're golden.

I also like to put a second mark just above the point where the pump starts to suck air as you remove water. It's good to know how far down you can draw the system before you need to start worrying about topping up. :)
 

FINWIN

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Joey (KODIY) has what he calls the one inch rule...never heard of it before. He says you calculate the surface area of your tank (x height) and divide by 24...this will let you know how many gallons you need to accomodate in the sump. He calls it the safety factor and sometimes he'll go 2 times or more over that for sump capacity. Pretty cool concept. Times 1 is the minimum safety factor.

So, in my case for the 225 it calculates to exactly 8.03 gallons (SF1). This is remarkably accurate, too...whenever I topped off the 225 on hot days with about an inch to spare I would fill slightly more than 4 times with my 2 gallon buckets!

Great info and ideas here, everyone.
 

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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What type of glue is safe for aquarium pvc use? Can't seem to find a clear answer. Or is any glue safe once cured? I've seen both blue and purple stuff for pipe adhesive.
 

Backfromthedead

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What type of glue is safe for aquarium pvc use? Can't seem to find a clear answer. Or is any glue safe once cured? I've seen both blue and purple stuff for pipe adhesive.
The blue should be for pvc-pvc. Same stuff used to cement the plumbing in your home. Use primer for best results.

Most bulkheads are actually ABS, not pvc. If you have abs bulkheads you will want green pvc-abs cement for connecting the bulkheads to the pvc, which is designed specifically for that transition. The blue will actually work but green is ideal imo.
 
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jjohnwm

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What type of glue is safe for aquarium pvc use? Can't seem to find a clear answer. Or is any glue safe once cured? I've seen both blue and purple stuff for pipe adhesive.
Maybe it's a different story in 'Murica...the land of the floating ABS pipe :)...but here in Canuckistan, the purple stuff is strictly a primer to be used before cement is applied. Grey PVC solvent cement is used for...wait for it...grey PVC sold as electrical conduit. The off-white PVC conduit typically used for water is glued with a clear solvent, almost invisible after curing. For black ABS pipe, which I use whenever I can in place of PVC because it's cheaper (up here...) and it sinks (up here...), the solvent cement is a disgusting mustard-yellow colour and it remains brightly coloured permanently...yuck...so I tend to apply it carefully and wipe up excess immediately. There is another solvent cement for ABS/PVC "transitions", but I don't remember the colour, haven't used it in ages.

Read the can before buying! The good news is that I have used all of these at one point or another, and after allowing to cure (I like to wait a week or so to be safe) they all seem to be non-toxic. :)

Incidentally, white PVC pipe used with clear solvent cement is easily coated with a thinly applied layer of the cement, after which you can either roll it in gravel, sand or other substrate, or alternatively you can sprinkle the stuff over it. Might take one or two coats, but you can make some fairly natural-looking hides and caves out of plain old PVC using this method.
 
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