Educating MFK on Africans!

[angeltc]

Great thread! Just read all 28 pages. Thanks for all the info.

 

[tcarswell]

Great job Ash , I just started my first African tank today. I have had predator aquariums reef aquariums monster fresh fish tanks. But today I decided on the African cichlids this has helped a lot thank you!

 

[Ash]

no problem guys I am just really sorry I have not been able to update or add in such a long time =[

 

[JonV]

Being a little new in terms of posting here, I don't want to insert foot into mouth. I do not really agree though with the concept that mixing Mbuna and Haps is a bad idea. I think there should be included with that, depending on tank size.

In the years I've been breeding all three types, Haps, Mbuna, and Peacock, what I have found is for the most part, you'll find your Haps and Peacocks do not often dwell in the lower end of a tank, where Mbuna hang out. In terms of aggression, unless you have a very shallow tank, agression should not become an issue between these groups, even with larger Peacock males. Haps and Peacocks tend to be more open water types, indepenant of the rocky bottoms.

Tanks under 55 gallons though, will pose these problems. That's not to say either that a 55 gallon tank just opens the door. You still have to have respect towards what species you are trying to house togeather. You pick something hype like Auratus or Johanni, and they are as close to the South American Green Terror or Red Devil types in terms of temper, as you can get for Africans. These species simply don't play well with anyone.

I'd just like to offer that actually, it varies greatly between what species you are trying to mix, compared with the footprint. While that does seem common sense, I've seen too many people asking what more can they add in an already heavily stocked 40 gallon....I am no fan of the overstocking to reduce aggression either, but that's a seperate subject and thread. I also breed now, some Madagascars and Victorians. I'd be happy to offer input from time to time as needed.

 

[mike dunagan]

I would have to disagree. As it can work in a few special circumstances, as a general glossy rule it is a bad idea. I say this from experience with larger tanks. 135 and 120. I have done tall and long. I find that my haps and peacocks are in the lower end of the tank. In fact the sand area is where most smaller haps and peacocks are. Peacocks eat by picking in the sand at food they never see. They are all in the same genus because they feed the same. They use pits in their jaws to sense food in the sand. Many haps eat by sifting the sand as well. So I would say that these fish do in fact spent their time in the same areas of mbuna. The other haps are mbuna eaters. So that makes it even more difficult. Now if we are talking peaceful mbuna, well that really narrows which you can have. So as a general rule for most tank, I would say do not mix.

You are on the noise that many see over stocking and take it way too far.

 

[JonV]

Usually Mike I've seen the Peacocks usually get stressed out before the Mbuna do and the Peacocks are about 2-3 times larger then the Mbuna. I don't like stress in my tanks, though, that's an almost contradiction when we say a non stressful African cichlid tank LOL. I try to minimize as much as I can. I actually found my Haps and Peacocks don't hardly go down at all, mostly mid tank, though I will say mine is a 180 and I have a pair of full grown Male Venustus too, speaking of Haps eating Mbuna....

Those 2 guys, they spend more time chasing the females then thinking to eat anyone, but you are correct. In the wild, Venustus are known to play dead to lure Mbuna fry. Maybe I've just had some sort of pixie luck, but mixing my Haps/Mbuna/Peacocks have worked out very well for the most part. Like I said, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest being new to posting here either. The African cichlid hobby already is volitile enough as it is, I don't have any intentions to add to it LOL

 

[Marius]

Usually Mike I've seen the Peacocks usually get stressed out before the Mbuna do and the Peacocks are about 2-3 times larger then the Mbuna. I don't like stress in my tanks, though, that's an almost contradiction when we say a non stressful African cichlid tank LOL. I try to minimize as much as I can. I actually found my Haps and Peacocks don't hardly go down at all, mostly mid tank, though I will say mine is a 180 and I have a pair of full grown Male Venustus too, speaking of Haps eating Mbuna....

Those 2 guys, they spend more time chasing the females then thinking to eat anyone, but you are correct. In the wild, Venustus are known to play dead to lure Mbuna fry. Maybe I've just had some sort of pixie luck, but mixing my Haps/Mbuna/Peacocks have worked out very well for the most part. Like I said, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest being new to posting here either. The African cichlid hobby already is volitile enough as it is, I don't have any intentions to add to it LOL

Metriaclima species get to 7" and some of the males really have an extra X cromozome, because they end up ruling one's entire setup. I agree with Mike on this one, unless one has a really deep tank (3' and up) where a certain space would be put between rock dwelling and open water species ...well then, combining Mbunas with open water species is not the best of ideas.

Personal note here, the thing that pisses me off the most about mixing the two groups is that Mbunas are fin nippers. Yes Aulonocara and Utakas can learn to live with the stress, yes they will spawn, yes they will live they will live their lives to see one getting bored of them ...J/K but why, why would one put them through such an ordeal when the named species will never, ever get to have the long trailers and extensions of their fins that makes a Champsochromis, Protomelas Spilonotus Liuli simply stare in awe to the sight of them. That's one of my main arguments when I see people mixing Frontosas with Mbunas. It's like bringing home a school of rabbit 5$/fish and set them free on 200$/piece frontosas ...I cannot understand that.

 

[JonV]

Shoot Marius, I think most people that even mix any Tang's with Malawi should have to write an essay on why they are doing it in the first place myself. HOWEVER, that being said, long before I read up on Tang requirements, we did end up buying a Tropheus Dubosi because she just loved that purple look. Here we are 3 years into having him, and I got him in my mixed Malawi tank, simply because he beat the living hell out of all my Baenschi Peacocks. He's in with the big boys now and doesn't mess with any peacocks in that tank! Good post though I think. That should be a whole sticky I think, Tangyangikans by itself.

 

[Marius]

Shoot Marius, I think most people that even mix any Tang's with Malawi should have to write an essay on why they are doing it in the first place myself. HOWEVER, that being said, long before I read up on Tang requirements, we did end up buying a Tropheus Dubosi because she just loved that purple look. Here we are 3 years into having him, and I got him in my mixed Malawi tank, simply because he beat the living hell out of all my Baenschi Peacocks. He's in with the big boys now and doesn't mess with any peacocks in that tank! Good post though I think. That should be a whole sticky I think, Tangyangikans by itself.

Thanks for the kind words, but I have to underline that you were just lucky to have kept the Duboisi alive for so long. There was a member here that lost his Dub in a community, not too long ago.

Anyway, Tanganyikans aside, I'd still not mix Mbunas with certain Utaka species. Simply because of the "fin nipping" mentioned above, not to mention the different dietary needs, and how complicated it is to always monitor Mbunas for any signs of bloat.

There are so many choices of color in the species pallet, if you will, of the Lake Malawi. For people who want something exciting and "colorful" ...because that sells all the time to new and inexperienced hobbyists, I'd suggest all male setups of Utakas, by far will rival in beauty and color any "salt water FOWLER setup, and hopefully I don't get blasted for that, but adult males, "dressed" up in a perfectly balanced setup (numbers, space and variants) is the perfect choice for someone who's not interested in breeding fish, but is merely interested in enjoying a nice pallet of colors.

All male utakas all the way. Screw the Mbunas, Mbunas are for Mbuna setups only, and don't get me wrong, you can bring that to a level of art as well. Here's the 72gal I was playing with ...Mbuna setup

 

[superleggera123]

Hey guys... im new to MFK
i am 16 and i live in Toronto
just needed some help with my Malawi Haps...
how do you guys control aggression.. Ive tried everything so far lol
but nothing works.... the most aggressive fish in my tank is a Venustus which is bothering my Hap Ahli BIG time!!
any help would be awesome
i hope to be good friends with everyone here and be part of the community
O and here is a video of my setup ( i am switching to sand soon)

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