flakes or pellets
- Thread starter lp85253
- Start date
To make it easier for you to understand the benefits of pellets over flakes, I'll break down the things into simpler composition. I might still go deep about this so please let me know which part you need further clarification.
Without putting the ingredients into perception first, let's see what makes floating pellets, sinking pellets and flakes quite different from each other.
Sinking pellets
1. The stuff does sink which does not add up air when the goldfish attempts to swallow them as fast as they sink. Advantage.
2. Pellets hold the much needed vitamins better than the flakes do. Advantage.
3. It does pollute. It should be treated as food leftover that acts as pollutant. This is more advantageous to use if your goldfish act faster, have barebottom tank or substrate is less coarser to prevent the pellets from slipping underneath out of reach from the fish. Disadvantage.
Floating pellets
1. The stuff floats and can inject air in the process when it is swallowed by the fish. Disadvantage.
2. See sinking pellets, no. 2. Advantage.
3. Pollutant if left uneaten but as it is afloat, it is much easier for the fish to locate them immediately. Presoaking will allow them to sink much slowly. Advantage.
Flakes
1. Floats and adds up air. Disadvantage.
2. Can swell quickly and will swell even if ingested. Disadvantage.
3. Vitamins are water soluble and therefore likely to leach. I compare this to eating potato chips. May be presoaked in liquid vitamins which is tedious and time consuming. Disadvantage.
4. Deteriorates quickly after a series of reopening the package exposing to air and light. Both elements can destroy the food quality. Disadvantage.
5. Easy to locate as it does not sink easily. Advantage.
Clarifications of some fallacies:
1. "Does not pollute." This implies more to nutritional analysis than the environmental cause. A majority of commercial foods pack up very low fiber while trying to focus their ad5 on proteins which they manipulate with starch-based ingredients. This is good for less pollution risk but it increases incidence of bloating and constipation as the low fiber does not allow the fish to discharge excess foods immediately.
2. "Feed within a few minutes (time recommended varies from 2-5 minutes)." This depends how fast and how much food your goldfish need to eat. In my opinion, I'd rather the fish be given what they can consume in less than a minute especially if they are fast eaters. Drop as much food that disappear quickly into their mouths as possible but do not be tempted to drop more than they can locate and eat otherwise you end up vacuuming the wasted food anyway.
Few small meals are much better than a few large meals. 2-3 times a day feeding should be sufficient enough for juveniles. Once a day for adults.
In this part, I will include other variables this time. It seems unrelated to the original questions but I just thought I'd add this up to weigh the possibilities why we need to be cautious with the foods we choose for our fancy goldfish especially if you own ones with very compact body shape.
Causes of Buoyancy Issues:
1. Floating foods. In this case, both floating pellets and flakes are involved. Flakes are already a widely unaccepted food for some fancy goldfish predisposed to buoyancy issues especially ones with exaggerated compact body shape such as ryukins and tikus pearlscales. When the fish eats them, they also add up air into their GI (gastrointestinal) tract. As their GI tract often ends up squashed up, it becomes very difficult for the fish to expel air out of their system.
2. Starch-based foods. Many commercial foods employ the use of "fillers" (starch) to manipulate the protein outcome required for juvenile fish. The starch has been responsible in dozens of cases of buoyancy issues for being the cause of gas formation inside their tract. Goldfish do not have a proper stomach to digest their foods. They rely on the bacteria lining their tract to do that job. The bacteria in turn then reproduce gas as they digest the starch.
Unrelated...
3. Physical attacks. Some fish display unusual belligerence that sometimes results in physical damage especially internally and may not be detected. I've seen a few cases of fancies attacked by their boisterous tankmates especially koi (possibly due to spawning period) and suffered buoyancy issues as a result.
4. Bacterial and viral infections.
5. Pressure changes. Not a common issue.
Conclusions in your case:
1. I'd rather recommend sinking pellets. Your goldfish can forage the bottom very well but if they are forced to adapt on floating stuff for a period of time, then their foraging technique tends to be rather poor that sinking pellets pollute your water much quicker than you think as they are used to locating their foods around the water surface.
2. If your gravel is very coarse and traps the pellets easily, consider feeding sparingly. Do not drop all the foods at once that most of it sink immediately to the substrate.
3. NLS is fine and is one of the few commercial foods with proper nutritional analysis and ingredients (depending on the size and age of your fish). The others I often recommend are Mazuri, Dainichi, Omega One and Hikari. These ones are also very good brands but some tend to be very expensive indeed. If you are buying a large pack, try to divide them into smaller portions so you will not have to reopen the package constantly that the freshness and quality of the food deteriorate needlessly. The packs should always remain vacuum-sealed.
Without putting the ingredients into perception first, let's see what makes floating pellets, sinking pellets and flakes quite different from each other.
Sinking pellets
1. The stuff does sink which does not add up air when the goldfish attempts to swallow them as fast as they sink. Advantage.
2. Pellets hold the much needed vitamins better than the flakes do. Advantage.
3. It does pollute. It should be treated as food leftover that acts as pollutant. This is more advantageous to use if your goldfish act faster, have barebottom tank or substrate is less coarser to prevent the pellets from slipping underneath out of reach from the fish. Disadvantage.
Floating pellets
1. The stuff floats and can inject air in the process when it is swallowed by the fish. Disadvantage.
2. See sinking pellets, no. 2. Advantage.
3. Pollutant if left uneaten but as it is afloat, it is much easier for the fish to locate them immediately. Presoaking will allow them to sink much slowly. Advantage.
Flakes
1. Floats and adds up air. Disadvantage.
2. Can swell quickly and will swell even if ingested. Disadvantage.
3. Vitamins are water soluble and therefore likely to leach. I compare this to eating potato chips. May be presoaked in liquid vitamins which is tedious and time consuming. Disadvantage.
4. Deteriorates quickly after a series of reopening the package exposing to air and light. Both elements can destroy the food quality. Disadvantage.
5. Easy to locate as it does not sink easily. Advantage.
Clarifications of some fallacies:
1. "Does not pollute." This implies more to nutritional analysis than the environmental cause. A majority of commercial foods pack up very low fiber while trying to focus their ad5 on proteins which they manipulate with starch-based ingredients. This is good for less pollution risk but it increases incidence of bloating and constipation as the low fiber does not allow the fish to discharge excess foods immediately.
2. "Feed within a few minutes (time recommended varies from 2-5 minutes)." This depends how fast and how much food your goldfish need to eat. In my opinion, I'd rather the fish be given what they can consume in less than a minute especially if they are fast eaters. Drop as much food that disappear quickly into their mouths as possible but do not be tempted to drop more than they can locate and eat otherwise you end up vacuuming the wasted food anyway.
Few small meals are much better than a few large meals. 2-3 times a day feeding should be sufficient enough for juveniles. Once a day for adults.
In this part, I will include other variables this time. It seems unrelated to the original questions but I just thought I'd add this up to weigh the possibilities why we need to be cautious with the foods we choose for our fancy goldfish especially if you own ones with very compact body shape.
Causes of Buoyancy Issues:
1. Floating foods. In this case, both floating pellets and flakes are involved. Flakes are already a widely unaccepted food for some fancy goldfish predisposed to buoyancy issues especially ones with exaggerated compact body shape such as ryukins and tikus pearlscales. When the fish eats them, they also add up air into their GI (gastrointestinal) tract. As their GI tract often ends up squashed up, it becomes very difficult for the fish to expel air out of their system.
2. Starch-based foods. Many commercial foods employ the use of "fillers" (starch) to manipulate the protein outcome required for juvenile fish. The starch has been responsible in dozens of cases of buoyancy issues for being the cause of gas formation inside their tract. Goldfish do not have a proper stomach to digest their foods. They rely on the bacteria lining their tract to do that job. The bacteria in turn then reproduce gas as they digest the starch.
Unrelated...
3. Physical attacks. Some fish display unusual belligerence that sometimes results in physical damage especially internally and may not be detected. I've seen a few cases of fancies attacked by their boisterous tankmates especially koi (possibly due to spawning period) and suffered buoyancy issues as a result.
4. Bacterial and viral infections.
5. Pressure changes. Not a common issue.
Conclusions in your case:
1. I'd rather recommend sinking pellets. Your goldfish can forage the bottom very well but if they are forced to adapt on floating stuff for a period of time, then their foraging technique tends to be rather poor that sinking pellets pollute your water much quicker than you think as they are used to locating their foods around the water surface.
2. If your gravel is very coarse and traps the pellets easily, consider feeding sparingly. Do not drop all the foods at once that most of it sink immediately to the substrate.
3. NLS is fine and is one of the few commercial foods with proper nutritional analysis and ingredients (depending on the size and age of your fish). The others I often recommend are Mazuri, Dainichi, Omega One and Hikari. These ones are also very good brands but some tend to be very expensive indeed. If you are buying a large pack, try to divide them into smaller portions so you will not have to reopen the package constantly that the freshness and quality of the food deteriorate needlessly. The packs should always remain vacuum-sealed.
I just want to say I loved the detail here. So very helpful and informative. Excellent work!
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Not too sure what the OP's question has to do with fancy goldfish, that have deformed GI tracts?
FYI - starch is not used as a "filler", it is primarily used as a binding agent, and a low cost source of energy to the fish. Also, when feeding the vast majority of fish, and most certainly CA & SA cichlids, there is no difference between feeding a floating pellet, or a sinking pellet. All other things being equal, both will contain the exact same nutrient levels. Floating pellets simply have a honeycomb type design to them which traps air & allows them to float.
Again, we aren't discussing man made fish with deformed GI tracts and buoyancy issues.
FYI - starch is not used as a "filler", it is primarily used as a binding agent, and a low cost source of energy to the fish. Also, when feeding the vast majority of fish, and most certainly CA & SA cichlids, there is no difference between feeding a floating pellet, or a sinking pellet. All other things being equal, both will contain the exact same nutrient levels. Floating pellets simply have a honeycomb type design to them which traps air & allows them to float.
Again, we aren't discussing man made fish with deformed GI tracts and buoyancy issues.
Both of you have given good info.... although I do not have goldfish some of the principals do apply.... thanks very much for the info and anyone with more info (especially if you have links)PLEASE feel free to educate us .......thanks.....LEE
Agreed. He may have been using goldfish as an example, but the majority of his info applies to all fish.
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I think he may have been using goldfish as an example, but most of his points transfer over to all fish.
However, thank you for clarifying it to make it apply more to CA/SA.
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I couldn't disagree more.
Most of the supposed disadvantages regarding flake food, and floating food are based on either old outdated info, or specifically pertain to fish with scrunched up deformed GI tracts such as many of the fancy goldfish that due to these physical characteristics are predisposed to gastrointestinal issues and/or buoyancy issues. This has nothing to do with SA or CA species of cichlids.
And please do not take that as a slam against fancy goldfish, I have kept my share over the years and I'm fairly well versed in their needs, and how to keep them sucessfully.
As a general rule floating pellets do not pose any type of gastrointestinal issue to SA or CA cichlids. Ditto to the "swelling" of flake food, which when happens is generally caused from excessive amounts of starch.
In general, flake foods are one of the easier foods for most cichlids to consume due to their lack of density. In other words it takes a LOT of flake food to bung up a fish. As an example compare 100 grams of flake food, to 100 grams of sinking pellets and you'll see what I mean. Flake foods are generally far more forgiving when it comes to overfeeding, and/or causing gastrointestinal issues in cichlids. Comparing flake food to potato chips is simply ridiculous.
The form or type of food doesn't cause these problems, which is what the previous post was suggesting. If/when food triggers an internal issue it is generally either caused from overfeeding, or it is the actual raw ingredients that make up the food that caused the gastrointestinal issues in the fish. In the latter case it is typically from excessive amounts of poorly digestible ingredients. These types of ingredients, such as excessive amounts of terrrestrial grains (corn, soybeans, wheat, etc) can be found in all forms of foods, including sinking pellets, not just in flakes, and not just in floating pellets.
HTH
