The Use of Probiotics in Aquaculture

[Miguel]

Exactly, Barbara. I pour in what i have at hand, pharmacy wise, not septic tank wise, and bet on the horse of out competing noxious bacteriae.

It is empyrical, agreed ( in my case ). I inobtrusively follow RD and adapt as i can with what i find in my sun ridden country.

 

[aclockworkorange]

I chose rid x because it seemed the most similar to what RD. was using originally, we even thought it could be the same thing but packaged and branded differently for different countries (Canada and US), a lot of the language used on their websites was similar. I know he was able to find some information on that product as to what was in it.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Oscar Mike]

What are your thoughts on this statement (from http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ponds/msg0813060614990.html):

If you look into what is actually in the product you will find that it supposedly contains enzymes and dried bacteria specifically meant to work in an anaerobic environment. However, there is some indication that is not all that is in there. A bit of research will show you the basic patent for Rid-X. Click here for Rid-X Patent info
One of the ingredients that appears to be present is a form of pyrophosphate to help buffer pH as well as increase metabolic activity in the anaerobic environment. Pyrophosphates are generally hydrolyzed and broken down in aerobic environments to orthophosphates...the form that is readily taken up and used by algae. It is therefore potentially possible that adding Rid-X that you might be adding phosphate to your pond although there may be formulations out there that contain no such compounds. Given that our ponds are closed or recirculating systems such compounds might prove detrimental longterm (i.e., enhancing algae growth).

I added a little less than 5 tablespoons (in a mesh media bag) to my 240 last night and obviously it's too soon to notice an increase or decrease in that small patch of algae, but this is the first time one of my tanks has developed algae in several years so the additional phosphates make me worry a little. I'm also concerned about a few warnings I read on the ridX box and on their site, such as not allowing pets to drink treated water or that it was found to be toxic to fathead minnows in large concentrations. Those concerns are somewhat alleviated by my belief that this will make waste more manageable for BB by disolving solid organic compounds, along with potentially boosting the immune system of my fish without the use of antibiotics, but I still worry about any counterproductive additives or bacteria cultures. I guess we'll never know all of the ingredients besides what's listed on the patent but I'll post an update if I see any significant changes

 

[RD.]

As demonstrated in the various products in the following link, the Bacillus genus is the main bacteria family used in septic tank formulas.

http://www.bio-cat.com/products

It is also the main *probiotic* bacteria family used in aquaculture formulas, including probiotic fish food formulas.


With regards to growth performance, immune response, or out-competing pathogenic bacteria via competitive exclusion, as stated previously the science is still in its infancy - and could be highly subjective to species, as well as the growth stage of species, etc-etc.


That leaves us with improving water quality (by increased waste reduction), which again places the bacillus genus of probiotic bacteria as #1. So while one may never be privy to the proprietary information regarding most of these various septic tank products, it's safe to say that the vast majority of them will all be based on the Bacillus genus of *probiotic* bacteria, with a few in-house tweaks & twists with some of the various septic cleaner brands.


The main thing is using a product that is 100% organic, biodegradable, and non-toxic. That doesn't mean that you should feed it to your dog, or dump the contents of 10 packages into a 5 gallon tank full of guppies.



KingofKings ............... I find it difficult to entertain comments from naysayers that are basing their negative conclusions on nothing more than speculation. It also seemed quite clear to me that the poster did not understand that heterotrophic bacteria can be gram-positive (eg. Bacillus) or gram-negative (eg. Pseudomonas), and while some are designed for anaerobic conditions, some are strictly aerobic, while many are facultative anaerobes, which means that they can survive in both the presence or absence of oxygen.

I cannot prove one way or the other what (if any) effect the product that I use (SeptoBac) has had on the growth or overall immunity of any of my fish, or whether it is out-competing pathogenic bacteria (hopefully I don't have any present in numbers that could be problematic) - but what I can say with 100% certainty is that the *probiotic* septic tank bacteria I have been using for the past several months has most definitely reduced the organics in my tanks, and filters. That alone has been well worth it for me.


The only difference between what I'm using, and what is sold in pet stores across America, is the product that I'm using costs a tiny fraction in comparison.

 

[Aquanero]

Here's the info on Rid X stright from the manufacturer: http://www.rbnainfo.com/productpro/...29&productLineId=516&searchType=PL&template=1

 

[RD.]

I recall sending that link to Jeff when we were first discussing this months back, which really doesn't tell you a whole lot, beyond the fact that Rid-X uses a wheat bran medium, and contains Bacillus licheniformis. (which produces Subtilisin Carlsberg, a bacterial protease) http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P00780

The rest of that MSDS reads like the vast majority of septic cleaning products; Contains Bacterial Spores and Enzymes.

 

[RD.]

And for those who want to know exactly what probiotic bacteria are in the septic product they are using, you might want to take a closer look at the following product.

http://www.septicmaxx.com/how-septic-maxx-works-2/

The species of bacteria contained in Septic Maxx are all non-pathogenic and naturally occurring and are commonly referred to as “good bacteria”. The microorganisms found in Septic Maxx include Bacillus subtilis, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus polymyxa and Bacillus circulans. These microorganisms degrade oils and fats, vegetable and meat particles, toilet paper, hair and fecal matter resulting in clean, clarified water. Additionally, when these bacteria are thriving in the septic system, they are also destroying harmful pathogenic bacteria such as E-Coli and Salmonella. This is extremely important because the water that can leach from the septic tank will not contaminate the clean ground water which can then end up in lakes and rivers causing severe health hazards.

There are four different enzymes added in the Septic Maxx product blend: lipase, protease, cellulase and amylase. Enzymes are like the machinery needed for the bacteria to reduce the solids. The bacterial species naturally excrete these enzymes in order to facilitate the uptake of nutrients. They are added into the formula to provide a beneficial relationship between the bacteria and the surrounding material.

Here is a description of each enzyme:

PROTEASE: Proteases are capable of chewing down proteins. Proteins are found in a wide variety of food products such as meats and vegetables. These can be found in the septic systems from fecal matter or from simply washing your plates after you eat. Hair also contains a protein called keratin. Protease will help degrade hair in your septic tanks as well.

LIPASE: Lipase breaks down fats and greases that end up getting stuck in your drains and float at the top of your septic tank. They source from any foods that are high in fats or that are cooked in oils.

CELLULASE: Cellulase breaks down a compound called cellulose, the main component of paper. Toilet paper can be a major problem in septic systems; however Septic Maxx can degrade up to 99% of toilet paper as shown by tests performed in our laboratory. Not only does it help degrade the material in septic tanks, it helps bacterial activity by providing its fuel to survive and flourish.

AMYLASE: Amylase breaks down starches that are found in many vegetables. This ends up in your septic tank from dishwashers and sinks.

They even offer a 30 day no obligation trial on their website.

 

[Aquanero]

The rest of that MSDS reads like the vast majority of septic cleaning products; Contains Bacterial Spores and Enzymes.

Exactly my point it is the same as every other septic/sludge removing product on the market whether it is for ponds or septic systems it's vertually the same stuff.

I just finished water changes in all my tanks a they hav been dosed with Eartheworm Septic Powder and a few have been does with Rid X so far have have seen no differance in they way either product preformes. Both work great.

 

[RD.]

Correct, all of these products are very similar, but there can be variations in what strains of bacteria (as well as the number of bacteria) are being used from one company to the next. Even within the same company there can be variations in the product line depending on what the formula was primarily designed for, as in organic waste reduction, or competitive exclusion and overall immune response. The one thing that they ALL have in common, the vast majority of these products are based on the Bacillus genus strains of bacteria.

As an example, check out the various formulas that this company sells.

http://www.alken-murray.com/Bugdindex.htm


And Tom, make sure to note the last formula designed for aquatics/ponds - Clear-Flo 1015

"decrease the competitive advantage of Cyanobacteria in lakes and ponds"

I guess I'm not a pioneer after all, just an old fart with too much time on my hands.

 

[petspoiler]

....... Even within the same company there can be variations in the product line depending on what the formula was primarily designed for, as in organic waste reduction, or competitive exclusion and overall immune response. The one thing that they ALL have in common, the vast majority of these products are based on the Bacillus genus strains of bacteria.

As an example, check out the various formulas that this company sells.

http://www.alken-murray.com/Bugdindex.htm


......... note the last formula designed for aquatics/ponds - Clear-Flo 1015

....

Interesting company formulations. so I kept clicking around to find distributors, but "smallest purchase amount is 25 lbs" for each item. LOL. too bad.
...talk about an mfk Group buy! ;-)