Calling all festivum experts!

Mythic Figment

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Mesonauta mirificus also has a range that includes Cloumbia there is some overlap of ranges. If they are advertivesd as M. egregius that's most likly what they are. We were just pointing out Mesonauta are often miss identified but if they were collected in the known range you should get what they say they are.
It's listed on Wetspot's page as wild Mesonauta festivus from Columbia. I don't believe that to be true since festivus profiles don't indicate that they come from any region of Columbia. I knew they were mislabeled as soon as I saw them (everyone seems to just calls them festivus because they either don't care to try IDing them or simply don't know).


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Aquanero

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M. festivus are found in Bolivia, Paraguay and Brazil, not Columbia. If they were collected in Columbia they are not M. festivus. Years ago everything was a festivus and there was no species designation and still they are often just lumped under the catch all name and miss labeled as somthing they are not.
 

notho2000

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Even suppliers can be inaccurate as to where their fish were collected and what species they are. I picked up several festivums a few years back that were supposedly all the same species from the same location (Brasil). The were listed as 'insignis'. When they matured, there were differences in the appearance and size. The smaller variety reached a maximum size of ~5" for males, 4" for females. They were a decidedly yellow fish with vertical double banding. The others were much larger (M 8", F 6") showed much less yellow, have some single vertical banding and scales with dark outlines. I'm not sure what they both are to this day. Here are pics of the two species, the smaller, then the larger. Maybe someone can help me identify the species.

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Aquanero

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The top fish in the foreground looks like Mesonauta mirificus the bottom looks like Mesonauta festivus.
 

darth pike

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See, I would call the bottom one Mesonauta insignis due to the reticulated scale pattern above the line, as I believe only they and M. guyanae have that (the only species guide I've found predates the description of M. guyanae). I'd agree with M. mirificus for the top one.
 

Aquanero

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M. insignis usually shows more yellow under the chin and extending onto the abdomin where M. festivus doesn't have that. That's why I said M. festivus but these two are the most commonly confused species. At least we agree you have a M. mirificus.
 

ryansmith83

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IMO, if you like Mesonauta, it's best not to think too much about the specific species. They are notoriously hard to identify and the differences usually come down to little things like fused bars, reticulated scales, and the longitudinal stripe that runs into the dorsal.

I have grown out two groups of wild juveniles purchased from Jeff Rapps. The first was sold to me as M. acora and the second as true M. festivus from Rio Tapajos. Both groups varied from fish to fish. There were silver fish in both groups and yellow fish in both groups. In the M. festivus group, the females turned yellow with dark black bars when spawning, taking on a bumblebee appearance. When they weren't spawning, the yellow faded and they went back to being silver fish with a black longitudinal stripe across the body.

I posted pictures of both groups as juveniles and adults on various cichlid forums and everyone told me they were something different. I literally had five different people identify the first group as five of the six described species. It got me nowhere.

There are slight differences in body shape and color in some of them, but I don't even think that has to be specific to the species of fish. I think they are highly variable within a group, just like things like severums and discus. Buy a group and grow them out. I find that they're usually enjoyable regardless of the species.

Also, regarding Wet Spot's listing, they are just using a generic name. A lot of people list them as Mesonauta festivus because that was a catch-all name for them, stemming from their old classification as Cichlasoma festivum. It's the same reason so many people erroneously list green severums as Heros severus, which comes from Cichlasoma severum. Those are outdated names that stick around in the trade as a general catch-all for multiple species in a single genus.

Here are some of my two different groups.











 

darth pike

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If I were to call them, first two would be M. egregius due to the blotched line and the bottom group M. acora because of the faded line and split in the 4th bar, but I wouldn't want to be quoted on either one of them. :ROFL:

Edit: But, the first two don't have the 3rd bar split and the second have spotting on the tail so neither guess is right. I hate these fish sometimes. :cry:
 
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