Matt's gonna be making a trip very soon and testing the waters himself so this will give us an idea. We still won't know what happens during season changes or anythjng though but it's a start
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Goonch Death Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Chicxulub
- Start date
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The reason im saying temp its because people are keeping in 75+ water non stop no break and for fish that a captive breed that's ok but for wilds in any kind of fish it needs to be as close to natural as u possibly can get. Also the surface temp may be 75+ but whats the temp in the deep pools and deep parts of rivers? .... Juvi fish are almost always less hardy than adults..... Like I said id have to get a goonch and try it my way to see if I do any better..... I might just get one for my 40 breeder to grow out I already got the stuff to set up a stream tank but will need to get a pricy chiller and a fx5 which isn't cheap so id have to save up for a bit... Maybe he will go and find that the temp is lower than we thought and that will be the reason or it will be higher than we thought and it wont be the problem but you have to get temps from the deeper parts to because they may use them as a cooling off spot when they get to hot all is speculation till I experiment for myself...
Doing the same thing and expecting different results is not a method for success. These are not common fish in our hobby, and like all animals, they deserve our very best effort. There's nothing wrong with this thread. At the very least if some people learn a few things from others - it might help prevent deaths or increase the level of care given to these amazing animals.
Ive never been there, but the numbers I provided were found on this website: http://www.arcbc.org.ph/wetlands/vietnam/vnm_redrivdel.htm
Why not just get a large poly tank or something of that kind? There's no reason to start this fish in a 40B. You already handicap yourself, and regardless of whether it works or not, you get everyone on here riled up and they are less likely to believe what you have to say.
"Clouded this boy's future is..." 
Coming from a non-goonch guy... I think that a better database would be warranted - species/suspected species, age, size, length of keeping, water parameters (hardness, oxygenation, temp, etc.), description of normal and pre-death behavior, was it de-wormed, etc...
... for both perished and surviving fish.
Once this table is filled with a few dozen rows, I tend to think the picture will become more clear. Otherwise, I am afraid it will be the case of "clouded info in, clouded info out".
As for the migration idea - it may or may not have the merit and that's why this thread was created. I've come across earnest reports of migration behavior exhibited in captivity by e.g., doradiidae and ariidae. While doradiidae may have survived (they become restless, stop eating, and swim against current for months and "do look unhappy" according to the reporters), the ariidae, that spawn in fresh and live in marine, often perish.
So calling it the height of silliness backfires ... like any calling game...
Rob has everyone's respect in part because he writes significant and serious works on goonches and others. Real articles. Almost as serious as a non-professional can do. Sure he can be wrong sometimes. All we can.
Coming from a non-goonch guy... I think that a better database would be warranted - species/suspected species, age, size, length of keeping, water parameters (hardness, oxygenation, temp, etc.), description of normal and pre-death behavior, was it de-wormed, etc...
... for both perished and surviving fish.
Once this table is filled with a few dozen rows, I tend to think the picture will become more clear. Otherwise, I am afraid it will be the case of "clouded info in, clouded info out".
As for the migration idea - it may or may not have the merit and that's why this thread was created. I've come across earnest reports of migration behavior exhibited in captivity by e.g., doradiidae and ariidae. While doradiidae may have survived (they become restless, stop eating, and swim against current for months and "do look unhappy" according to the reporters), the ariidae, that spawn in fresh and live in marine, often perish.
So calling it the height of silliness backfires
... like any calling game...Rob has everyone's respect in part because he writes significant and serious works on goonches and others. Real articles. Almost as serious as a non-professional can do. Sure he can be wrong sometimes. All we can.
Who says there's something wrong with this thread? If one can't learn from his mistake, how could he learn from others? How can one learns from his mistake when he doesn't even know or recognize the mistake he made? Do you realize the number you provided or found from that website is surface temperature during summer time?
I agree completely."Clouded this boy's future is..."
Coming from a non-goonch guy... I think that a better database would be warranted - species/suspected species, age, size, length of keeping, water parameters (hardness, oxygenation, temp, etc.), description of normal and pre-death behavior, was it de-wormed, etc...
... for both perished and surviving fish.
Once this table is filled with a few dozen rows, I tend to think the picture will become more clear. Otherwise, I am afraid it will be the case of "clouded info in, clouded info out".
As for the migration idea - it may or may not have the merit and that's why this thread was created. I've come across earnest reports of migration behavior exhibited in captivity by e.g., doradiidae and ariidae. While doradiidae may have survived (they become restless, stop eating, and swim against current for months and "do look unhappy" according to the reporters), the ariidae, that spawn in fresh and live in marine, often perish.
So calling it the height of silliness backfires
Rob has everyone's respect in part because he writes significant and serious works on goonches and others. Real articles. Almost as serious as a non-professional can do. Sure he can be wrong sometimes. All we can.
Compare and contrast.
You lose a fish when you think you are doing everything correctly.
Others seem to have the same issue at the same time.
Clearly something went wrong - now if you collect everyone's information, including those that didnt lose their fish, and you compare them to single out variables, you might solve the problem.
The article provides both summer and winter temperatures. Which is interesting, because they are named in the same sentence.
Although temperature in the river will vary - they tend to be fairy homogeneous, due to their lotic nature.
Maybe you are right and there are large enough temperature differences in the bottom of the river that makes even the tropical goonches need temperate conditions. The only way to know is to either try again (or more easily) to contact others and see what is working.
Please take this discussion to PM unless there is anything relevant to the discussion.
I keep a lot of fish from Uruguay (which is varying degrees of sub-tropical) and providing a winter cool down period is essential to the long-term health of the fish.
I've tried keeping Gymnogeophagus and others in low to mid-70s (the low end of tropical temps) all year and found that the fish would break down and die inexplicably, even when all of the other water parameters were ideal. Cichlids should live more many years and goonches probably decades.
I now keep Uruguayan fish on the bottom and floor-level tanks in my basement fishroom (without heaters). The water gets down to the mid-50s in the winter and the fish come out of the cool season seemingly refreshed and ready to spawn. The fish grow slower but I have much lower mortality and seemingly unexplained, weird health issues.
I don't have plans to keep a goonch but if I did, I'd try lower daily temperatures and cool temps in the winter. And of course, pristine water conditions (i.e. lots of current, lots of water changes and regularly cleaned mechanical filtration)...
The other issue that comes to mind is feeding. I suspect that folks feed too much and too frequently, which can also cause premature death.
Matt
I've tried keeping Gymnogeophagus and others in low to mid-70s (the low end of tropical temps) all year and found that the fish would break down and die inexplicably, even when all of the other water parameters were ideal. Cichlids should live more many years and goonches probably decades.
I now keep Uruguayan fish on the bottom and floor-level tanks in my basement fishroom (without heaters). The water gets down to the mid-50s in the winter and the fish come out of the cool season seemingly refreshed and ready to spawn. The fish grow slower but I have much lower mortality and seemingly unexplained, weird health issues.
I don't have plans to keep a goonch but if I did, I'd try lower daily temperatures and cool temps in the winter. And of course, pristine water conditions (i.e. lots of current, lots of water changes and regularly cleaned mechanical filtration)...
The other issue that comes to mind is feeding. I suspect that folks feed too much and too frequently, which can also cause premature death.
Matt
You obviously didn't read all of my response. I said parasites or water quality is most likely cause. Also to add to that food. Maybe the fish need some nutrient that they get from the food they eat in their native waters.
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I'd think less food/nutrition vs. more. An animal from the wild that's an ambush predator...probably eating every couple of days...fed a steady diet of nutrient-heavy pellets...is living very differently than in the wild...
