Goonch Death Discussion Thread

[thebiggerthebetter]

I keep a lot of fish from Uruguay (which is varying degrees of sub-tropical) and providing a winter cool down period is essential to the long-term health of the fish.

I've tried keeping Gymnogeophagus and others in low to mid-70s (the low end of tropical temps) all year and found that the fish would break down and die inexplicably, even when all of the other water parameters were ideal. Cichlids should live more many years and goonches probably decades.

I now keep Uruguayan fish on the bottom and floor-level tanks in my basement fishroom (without heaters). The water gets down to the mid-50s in the winter and the fish come out of the cool season seemingly refreshed and ready to spawn. The fish grow slower but I have much lower mortality and seemingly unexplained, weird health issues....

Good point and examples but this cannot be entirely applicable to every fish, who possess varying degrees of adaptability.

For example an RTC: young fish live in the shallows, in warmer waters. Adults are found almost exclusively in the deep, murky main Amazon channels wherein the water temp on the surface is ~80 F and higher whilst divers report that 10'-15' below the temp plunge to low seventies and lower.

Also, the Amazon is fed from the Andes glaciers - vast water masses enter the river at 38 F. IDK how long/what distance it takes for the water to warm up and to what degree but being aware of this may help further thinking and researching. Asian rivers are fed from the very high mountainous regions too.

The RTCs probably have not been kept long enough for the last thought but FWIW, the oldest RTC's in captivity I know of were two 27 year olds of Taksan's that died of what appeared as natural causes. Many fish pros and fish heads believe RTCs can hit 50-100 years in the wild. Perhaps because they experience lower temps.

 

[frankie808]

can light be a cause?

 

[jlnguyen74]

I keep a lot of fish from Uruguay (which is varying degrees of sub-tropical) and providing a winter cool down period is essential to the long-term health of the fish.

I've tried keeping Gymnogeophagus and others in low to mid-70s (the low end of tropical temps) all year and found that the fish would break down and die inexplicably, even when all of the other water parameters were ideal. Cichlids should live more many years and goonches probably decades.

I now keep Uruguayan fish on the bottom and floor-level tanks in my basement fishroom (without heaters). The water gets down to the mid-50s in the winter and the fish come out of the cool season seemingly refreshed and ready to spawn. The fish grow slower but I have much lower mortality and seemingly unexplained, weird health issues.

I don't have plans to keep a goonch but if I did, I'd try lower daily temperatures and cool temps in the winter. And of course, pristine water conditions (i.e. lots of current, lots of water changes and regularly cleaned mechanical filtration)...

The other issue that comes to mind is feeding. I suspect that folks feed too much and too frequently, which can also cause premature death.

Matt

Very good point, Matt! I have found the same result, as well as some of my close friends who keep fish. I've found that keeping fish, almost any fish with the exception of discus, in temp of 75 or above tend to result in more "sudden death" issue then keeping them at temp between 60-70. Perhaps the warm temp helps to incubate those parasite and disease that fish carry, and waiting for the slight fluctuation to attack fish. Many have their mind wrapped up with the term "tropical" or tried to match the "ideal" condition that they have no clue, except thru information they found over Internet, without verification.
As for food, I chuckle every time I read that pellets is healthy. Perhaps, it works for those long term captive bred guppy or gold fish, but for wild caught predator fish it won't cut. They need whole fish, not even fillet. Many were too wrapped up with those printed ingredient and overlook the fact that it's processed food that contains chemical or material that may not even presents in whole fish, and that there are some ingredient or nutrition in whole fish bone and organs that pellet mfr can't made

 

[jlnguyen74]

Compare and contrast.

You lose a fish when you think you are doing everything correctly.

Others seem to have the same issue at the same time.

Clearly something went wrong - now if you collect everyone's information, including those that didnt lose their fish, and you compare them to single out variables, you might solve the problem.

The article provides both summer and winter temperatures. Which is interesting, because they are named in the same sentence.

Although temperature in the river will vary - they tend to be fairy homogeneous, due to their lotic nature.

Maybe you are right and there are large enough temperature differences in the bottom of the river that makes even the tropical goonches need temperate conditions. The only way to know is to either try again (or more easily) to contact others and see what is working.

Please take this discussion to PM unless there is anything relevant to the discussion.

Why take it to PM? A threat was created so that one can learn from other's mistake, so don't take it personal when one points out other's mistake/bad information in making assumption/researching.

I would like to share one best advice I got from JohnPTC few years back. He said, "what works in his tank may not work in mine, and vice versa." Fish keeping is one's unique skill. There are so many variants that one needs to learn thru his own mistake, instead of waiting for "knowledge" to get served on a silver platter. I wouldn't consider putting a fish in a glass box, hooked up with all kind of gadget, feed with food that is convenient to one, with feeding and water change schedule that are convenient to one is "doing everything correctly." It's more like putting a fish on life-support to me. One just need to learns his own mistake and avoid it to prolonge the life of his "hobby!"

 

[neoprodigy]

I would like to share one best advice I got from JohnPTC few years back. He said, "what works in his tank may not work in mine, and vice versa." Fish keeping is one's unique skill. There are so many variants that one needs to learn thru his own mistake, instead of waiting for "knowledge" to get served on a silver platter. I wouldn't consider putting a fish in a glass box, hooked up with all kind of gadget, feed with food that is convenient to one, with feeding and water change schedule that are convenient to one is "doing everything correctly." It's more like putting a fish on life-support to me. One just need to learns his own mistake and avoid it to prolonge the life of his "hobby!"

Well said

 

[neoprodigy]

I think we all want our monster to be the BIGGEST in the shortest time.. that is not natural! for me i feed my fish randomly... from every other week to twice a week.. what JL said is so true.. you can't substitute whole fish with pellets/fish fillets..

I have a drip system on all of my tank.. so the water the quality is pretty stable.. except after a feeding...

my goonch tank, and other bigger tank are heater less...

i think these are all factors to keep healthy tank

 

[Aw3s0m3]

I think we all want our monster to be the BIGGEST in the shortest time.. that is not natural! for me i feed my fish randomly... from every other week to twice a week.. what JL said is so true.. you can't substitute whole fish with pellets/fish fillets..

I have a drip system on all of my tank.. so the water the quality is pretty stable.. except after a feeding...

my goonch tank, and other bigger tank are heater less...

i think these are all factors to keep healthy tank

A drip is definitely key to keeping these guys happy and healthy. Can't get anymore stable than that in a home or even public aquarium. Question though, since your tanks are heaterless, what's your temp range at and does it stay the same during the winter?


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Post #18 summarizes Awesome's experience: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/goonch-or-tigrinus.657143/page-2