Today in the Fishroom ~ Talamancaheros sieboldii

[dan518]

Talamancaheros Říčan & Novák, 2016
Type specimen, Heros sieboldii Kner, 1863
1 valid species, Talamancaheros sieboldii (Kner, 1863)
However of note, Talamancaheros sieboldii is restricted to populations from Panama. Costa Rica populations are treated as a separate species in the paper as Talamancaheros underwoodi (Regan, 1906
From the central scene fb page which confuses me

 

[duanes]

The species seiboldi was once considered to be part of the genus Tomocichla (which I believe) is where the underwoodi name came from from. And I believe underwoodi was a synonym for Tomocichla tuba. Based on looks alone, I can see how they could be considered in the same genus.
I also found seiboldi to be nasty, even when kept in 100 gal+ tanks, the alpha would search out and destroy any lessor subordinates.
Pardon my photos, when next to the master.
young seiboldi

Tomocichla asfraci

T tuba

 

[Aquamojo]

The species seiboldi was once considered to be part of the genus Tomocichla (which I believe) is where the underwoodi name came from from. And I believe underwoodi was a synonym for Tomocichla tuba. Based on looks alone, I can see how they could be considered in the same genus.
I also found seiboldi to be nasty, even when kept in 100 gal+ tanks, the alpha would search out and destroy any lessor subordinates.
Pardon my photos, when next to the master.
young seiboldi

Tomocichla asfraci

T tuba

Underwoodi is a synonym for Tomocichlia (circa 1908). You are spot on for nasty. Forget that they (she actaully) hammered four other siblings to death. I had five Metynsis in the tank as they were growing up. They (she) has killed three of them. I have Metynsis in almost all of my CA cichlid tanks....never a problem. This girl is just plain ugly.

 

[justarn]

Subbed for many updates!-)

 

[duanes]

You know, I believe my seiboldi alpha was also a female.
And the same thing happened with my tuba, I had 4 males, and a buddy had a large female, so I gave him all my males.
She systematically killed the males 1 by 1, until there was only 1 male left.
She spawned with him a few times, then bumped him off.
Here she is with a bunch of wrigglers, they are a sort of brown wavy line.

I ended up with some juvies who promptly killed each other off in a 150 gallon tank, I believe I didn't provide a strong enough current.

 

[Aquamojo]

You know, I believe my seiboldi alpha was also a female.
And the same thing happened with my tuba, I had 4 males, and a buddy had a large female, so I gave him all my males.
She systematically killed the males 1 by 1, until there was only 1 male left.
She spawned with him a few times, then bumped him off.
Here she is with a bunch of wrigglers, they are a sort of brown wavy line.

I ended up with some juvies who promptly killed each other off in a 150 gallon tank, I believe I didn't provide a strong enough current.

I'm thinking about dropping a divider in the tank. No access for a while. She already tore his causal fin.

 

[nutty]

Ok thanks, just asked as I have seen the name t underwoodi about wasn't sure if it was just a different catch location or a described species.

Talamancaheros Říčan & Novák, 2016
Type specimen, Heros sieboldii Kner, 1863
1 valid species, Talamancaheros sieboldii (Kner, 1863)
However of note, Talamancaheros sieboldii is restricted to populations from Panama. Costa Rica populations are treated as a separate species in the paper as Talamancaheros underwoodi (Regan, 1906
From the central scene fb page which confuses me

Yes that is correct and is from my Facebook page.

Currently Talamancaheros is split into two geographical species: T, underwoodi (Costa Rica) and T.sieboldii (Panama). According to Říčan et al, species are separated by breeding pattern only. Uwe Werner explains the different diagnostic traits between the two species in a earlier article for the DCG Informationen magazine. Time will tell if the diagnostics stand up to scrutiny.

PS:

Herichthys underwoodi (1906, the oldest available name for sieboldii) is not to be confused with Tomocichla underwoodi (1908).

 

[Gourami Swami]

nutty I saw the video you posted of your sieboldii yesterday, the pair looks great. I must say that this is one species where the female's colors are more beautiful (to me) than the male. Perhaps this is somehow related to people's experiences of the females being more dominant.

 

[nutty]

Thanks, she looks a stunner, especially with the warm orange tones on the unpaired fins.

Both should adopt the breeding dress colouration, but for some reason, the male hasn't. Maybe as you say dominance is having some sort of influence?

Here is a chart I made to identify gender differences in both young and adult fish.

Doc1sieboldii a-page0001_1 by Lee Nuttall, on Flickr

 

[Toiletcar]

Very nice specimens Mo.