Official Off Topic Discussion Thread #1

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,460
3,861
179
Tennessee
Now you cannot own a car without insurance or proper training (obtaining license) yet none of this is needed to own and operate a firearm.
Hello; This is not necessarily correct. I think you can own a car without insurance or an operators license. However you cannot operate a car on public roads without a license and insurance in most states. Again having a car is not an enumerated right while having a firearm is.

So yes it is harder to kill with a big white truck vs a firearm.
Hello; Tell that to the folks in Niece France.
 

jaws7777

Probation Member
Probation Member
Mar 1, 2014
17,773
20,947
740
White house 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington
"I can be wrong just as you can be. My guess being no more valid than yours. The constitution is a legal document and what we base our laws upon"

Agreed on both.


"Hello; Driving, flying a plane and scuba are not among the enumerated "rights". In fact may states call the license to do such things "a privilege license." These things are not "rights."
Point being training is needed inorder to prevent death/accidents. Same should apply to fire arms.

So a half blind person should be able to carry a firearm in public. Even though in the event that he has to use such fire arm puts other civilians in harms way is an acceptable loss ?

"For example several of the same type might "need" to be positioned in various places around a property in order to be handy. You don't get to pause a home invasion so you can go retrieve a defensive weapon in another part of the property"


In your example these firearms positioned around ones home would what randomly hidden underseat cushions and behind paintings ? Im sorryman but this is an extreme reach and my lord the possible negstive outcomes that could come from such irresponsible storing of these weapons is endless.

"This is not necessarily correct. I think you can own a car without insurance or an operators license. However you cannot operate a car on public roads without a license and insurance in most states. Again having a car is not an enumerated right while having a firearm is."

My point being that training is need or a life may be taken. Im retired law enforcement and in my prioe state i needed to qualify yearly and demonstrate proper usage of a weapon in order to maintain a carry permit. Civilians should absolutly be required to go through the same process.


"Hello; Tell that to the folks in Niece France."
We can argue what the cause was....a white truck or liberal hippy immigration laws...


Question. Godforbid this occurs again but next week we have a school shooting ecery day of the week countless children die. Would your stance change ?
 

Drstrangelove

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,693
1,227
164
San Francisco
Now you cannot own a car without insurance or proper training (obtaining license) yet none of this is needed to own and operate a firearm. So yes it is harder to kill with a big white truck vs a firearm.
Depends on where you live, but I'd say it's always easier to get a truck, then a gun. Sometimes, it's far easier.

Applying for and passing a driving test along with $10 will get you a driving license. That license and a credit card will let you go to a rental car company and rent a truck. There will be no state or FBI background check or waiting period. There will be no concern if you are a convicted felon (even for a violent crime) or deemed to be mentally ill at any point in that process. A watch list will not be reviewed at any point. You will not have to have auto insurance.

In that same state, you may have to pass a lengthy training course on firearms (which can be quite expensive) and then a test. You will have to apply for and wait to get a license during which you may also have to pass a background check. To purchase a gun, you will need to have that license, pass a background check (FBI) and then wait to be approved. To purchase ammo you will need to have a license. You might be denied the ability to buy the gun simply because you are on certain watch lists, you will be denied often if you have a felony conviction or have any adverse mental illness history.

Of course, one could avoid a lot of this by stealing. But it's much easier to locate and steal a truck (which sit by the millions on every public street) than it is to locate and steal a gun.
 
Last edited:

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,460
3,861
179
Tennessee
Question. Godforbid this occurs again but next week we have a school shooting ecery day of the week countless children die. Would your stance change ?
hello; Some how the fact that that another person commits a terrible crime is supposed to make me want to give up my right to bear arms? I and millions of others who have arms will never use them in a violent crime. I might use one in self defense but so far in my 70 years have not had to do so.
This guy made a decision to do the deed. He apparently spent over a hundred grand and many days to set up this attack. I still do not see how restricting my right to bear arms has anything to do with this crime.
I will add more later in the white truck part.

In your example these firearms positioned around ones home would what randomly hidden underseat cushions and behind paintings ? Im sorryman but this is an extreme reach and my lord the possible negstive outcomes that could come from such irresponsible storing of these weapons is endless.
hello; Is that is the only way you can think of to do such a thing? I can think of ways to have weapons around that have little risk. Again your comments seem to play into the anti-gun way of thinking. Guns, rat poison, pesticides, fuel, propane tanks, knives and many other things should be stored and handled safely.

"Hello; Tell that to the folks in Niece France."
We can argue what the cause was....a white truck or liberal hippy immigration laws...
Hello; The guy did use a big white truck in the actual act. Killed a lot of people with that big white truck. I do think the EU has very porous borders and allowed in the very people hat are willing to kill their citizens.
Back to the Nevada killings. Seems to me once the guy decided to commit mass murder then he would have found a way. He picked guns in this case. Lets imagine that for some reason he could not use guns, I guess he could find another way. A big white truck is the example I use because vehicles have been used that way already.
I am trying to make the point that the guns were the tools of choice this time. Some other tool has and can be used.

i needed to qualify yearly and demonstrate proper usage of a weapon in order to maintain a carry permit.
Hello; Yes as did I have to pass a class and demonstrate competency with a firearm in order to have a carry permit. I do not have to requalify each year in order to keep the permit.
In my youth Kentucky was an open carry state. Some went around with pistols in belt holsters.
The point of a right is that you do not have to do anything in order to have that right. I have the right of free speech and do not have to be trained in "free speech". My ability to use that speech my be regulated in the example of "yelling fire in a theater".
If I wish to carry concealed I need to get the proper permit/license and follow the rules. However my right to own a gun should not have any such requirements.
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,460
3,861
179
Tennessee
Hello; By the way J jaws7777 my congrats at holding a grudge. I had forgotten about our dispute in the thread about the hunters next to your place. I keep meaning to make a list of members I disagree with but never get around to it.
 

jaws7777

Probation Member
Probation Member
Mar 1, 2014
17,773
20,947
740
White house 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington
Hello; By the way J jaws7777 my congrats at holding a grudge. I had forgotten about our dispute in the thread about the hunters next to your place. I keep meaning to make a list of members I disagree with but never get around to it.
Thats not a grudge. I have no ill feelings towards you regarding that discussion. Aparently you are getting upset with my disagreement with you. Thats fine man nut read that comment for what its worth.

Hunters were exercising their rights but not doing it in a lawful or safe manner this is the point i was trying to make.

Injust because we disagree on a topic there is no need for emotions to play apart in the discussion. No ill will on my part.


Depends on where you live, but I'd say it's always easier to get a truck, then a gun. Sometimes, it's far easier.

Applying for and passing a driving test along with $10 will get you a driving license. That license and a credit card will let you go to a rental car company and rent a truck. There will be no state or FBI background check or waiting period. There will be no concern if you are a convicted felon (even for a violent crime) or deemed to be mentally ill at any point in that process. A watch list will not be reviewed at any point. You will not have to have auto insurance.

In that same state, you may have to pass a lengthy training course on firearms (which can be quite expensive) and then a test. You will have to apply for and wait to get a license during which you may also have to pass a background check. To purchase a gun, you will need to have that license, pass a background check (FBI) and then wait to be approved. To purchase ammo you will need to have a license. You might be denied the ability to buy the gun simply because you are on certain watch lists, you will be denied often if you have a felony conviction or have any adverse mental illness history.

Of course, one could avoid a lot of this by stealing. But it's much easier to locate and steal a truck (which sit by the millions on every public street) than it is to locate and steal a gun.
Doc very true in all you say but i find it a hard pill to swallow that members working in law enforcement have to re train yearly while our average joe shmoe does not. Im not for taking away our rights but through the yrs our constitution has be amended many times. I would just like to see more responsible practices. I cant understand the need for an average citizen to own an arsenal.

Its just my experience and not meant towards any one member but everyone says they want the right to protect their property, i cant think of an instance where an assault rifle was used to stop a burglar. Also how many people would have the nuggets to pull the trigger ?

I guess what im saying is i would love for a way to make these mass shootings less frequent without totally infringing on our rights.

Not an easy subject. I just wonder if my school scenerio happened would that change the publics opinion....who knows
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,460
3,861
179
Tennessee
Aparently you are getting upset with my disagreement with you.
No ill will on my part.
Hello; Not upset exactly. I do sense a trend toward the "anti gun" element in that you appear to want restrictions on rights that happen to appeal to your way of thinking.
I know a fellow near by who has two revolvers. He thinks all other types should be banned as long as they let him keep his revolvers. Can't have it both ways.

i cant think of an instance where an assault rifle was used to stop a burglar
how many people would have the nuggets to pull the trigger ?
Hello; I have a buddy who is a lifetime member of the NRA. I sometimes get to read his magazines. Each month there are stories of the lawful use of weapons. Sometimes an assault type is used.

I cant understand the need for an average citizen to own an arsenal.
Hello; depends on what an arsenal is. How many is too many. Who gets to decide? is it you or me or someone else.
a way to make these mass shootings less frequent without totally infringing on our rights.
Hello; I do not see any way to do this. There have already been restrictions put in place on the exercise of the basic constitutional right.
The way I see it any additional restriction just chips away at that basic right. There are already laws in place to deal with any possible use of a firearm. That someone else decides to break the law does not seem justification for more restrictions on me or other law abiding citizens.
I get that people want someone to punish, but the shooter has already taken his own life. I will go back to my example of the truck. Neither a truck nor a gun acts on it's own. The debate and anger gets focused on the gun but the gun did not pull it's own trigger.

(Note- this may not be true of vehicles before long. Cars that can drive them selves are being worked on. I guess someday we may be able to blame the tool.)
 

jaws7777

Probation Member
Probation Member
Mar 1, 2014
17,773
20,947
740
White house 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington
Hello; Not upset exactly. I do sense a trend toward the "anti gun" element in that you appear to want restrictions on rights that happen to appeal to your way of thinking.
I know a fellow near by who has two revolvers. He thinks all other types should be banned as long as they let him keep his revolvers. Can't have it both ways.




Hello; I have a buddy who is a lifetime member of the NRA. I sometimes get to read his magazines. Each month there are stories of the lawful use of weapons. Sometimes an assault type is used.


Hello; depends on what an arsenal is. How many is too many. Who gets to decide? is it you or me or someone else.

Hello; I do not see any way to do this. There have already been restrictions put in place on the exercise of the basic constitutional right.
The way I see it any additional restriction just chips away at that basic right. There are already laws in place to deal with any possible use of a firearm. That someone else decides to break the law does not seem justification for more restrictions on me or other law abiding citizens.
I get that people want someone to punish, but the shooter has already taken his own life. I will go back to my example of the truck. Neither a truck nor a gun acts on it's own. The debate and anger gets focused on the gun but the gun did not pull it's own trigger.

(Note- this may not be true of vehicles before long. Cars that can drive them selves are being worked on. I guess someday we may be able to blame the tool.)
Certain points you make are valid other not soo much but to each his own.

Wondering what you think regarding law enforcement officers needing to re qualify yearly in order to carry a personal fireamr but you and joe shmoe do not.

A friend who is active LE was over today and this thread came up. He made a very good point. His exact words " so you have to kick in a door, on the other side is a perp with 9mm or an ar15, which would you chose to have to deal with" mhh easy to say what we like but do not consider what others deal with on a daily basis. Seems odd that such a high supporter of law enforcement would not consider this.

At this point there is no need to continue going back and forth. Your entitled to your opinion as am i.

Again we disagree on this topic no need to hold grudges
 

Warborg

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
Sep 2, 2009
3,340
2,156
179
Austin, Texas
Wondering what you think regarding law enforcement officers needing to re qualify yearly in order to carry a personal fireamr but you and joe shmoe do not.
Because they are in danger everyday and use guns to shoot people. Us are not suppose to be shooting people.
 

pops

Alligator Gar
MFK Member
Nov 24, 2013
6,247
3,304
188
WA
I am an amendment guy, this is known, but bump stocks need to go, just not something average joe needs to have. either that or make them federally licence, same as you would need to own a automatic.
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store