Animal cruelty?

[skjl47]

Anyways please don't get mad at me, I know I am somewhat complaining, but it's really questionable to me....I welcome anybody's thoughts.

Hello; Too late for absolution. This can of worms gets opened up from time to time and boils down to a matter of opinion. You pretty much had to know what you were doing as evidenced from the plea of "don't get mad at me."

As they were bleeding out I chopped off the heads. I cleaned them and cooked them and we ate them. Those fish were often just tossed on ice as I caught them, and cleaned some hours later. Many survived the ice chest to be cut up. Was this some inhumane sickness?

Hello; As a child (from six to ten years old) one of my chores was to catch and kill a hen (chicken) from time to time. It was for our family meals. I was too small to jerk their heads off like the adults so I used a hatchet.
On fishing trips as a kid I got the chore of cleaning the days catch. The live fish were pulled from a cooler. Many times I have started by cutting off their heads. Often the heart would still be beating by the time I gutted them. A fish heart would beat in my hand for some minutes. I have helped butcher hogs. All this was for table food.
As an adult I do not hunt because I have the funds to pay for the food I eat. I pay someone else to do these chores now days. Unless you are a vegan, so do you.

There are PETA animal activists out there who would choose the lobster to live over the humans who butchered it without killing it first, no joke.

Hello; This I can believe.

We all abhor animal cruelty but at the same time some would say we're all a bunch of hypocrites too

Hello; This statement is a bit too broad in my opinion. It depends too much on the definition of cruelty. Food animals have to be put down so if any of the methods used to kill them are included then I confess I do not abhor such killing.
Cruelty is more narrow for me. Something like doing harm for the fun of it. I recall in the good version of the film TRUE GRIT the scene where John Wayne rode a horse to death in the attempt to save the girl from a snake bite. Sure we use animals and sometimes we use them up.

a quick, more or less "humane" death is preferable to keeping an animal in cramped, filthy conditions for an extended period of time. If youre killing the animal to eat, its always just made sense to me to kill the animal as quickly as possible and not torture it.

Hello; Yes to this.

Hello; Watch a nature film or few. Sometimes the predator starts eating the prey while still alive. This is the world we are from and in reality still live. The local supermarket and the clean looking packaging are only lipstick on that particular pig. Go to a slaughter house some time and then go eat a burger. I can do that. Can you?

 

[Backfromthedead]

Hello; Too late for absolution. This can of worms gets opened up from time to time and boils down to a matter of opinion. You pretty much had to know what you were doing as evidenced from the plea of "don't get mad at me."

Hello; As a child (from six to ten years old) one of my chores was to catch and kill a hen (chicken) from time to time. It was for our family meals. I was too small to jerk their heads off like the adults so I used a hatchet.
On fishing trips as a kid I got the chore of cleaning the days catch. The live fish were pulled from a cooler. Many times I have started by cutting off their heads. Often the heart would still be beating by the time I gutted them. A fish heart would beat in my hand for some minutes. I have helped butcher hogs. All this was for table food.
As an adult I do not hunt because I have the funds to pay for the food I eat. I pay someone else to do these chores now days. Unless you are a vegan, so do you.

Hello; This I can believe.

Hello; This statement is a bit too broad in my opinion. It depends too much on the definition of cruelty. Food animals have to be put down so if any of the methods used to kill them are included then I confess I do not abhor such killing.
Cruelty is more narrow for me. Something like doing harm for the fun of it. I recall in the good version of the film TRUE GRIT the scene where John Wayne rode a horse to death in the attempt to save the girl from a snake bite. Sure we use animals and sometimes we use them up.

Hello; Yes to this.

Hello; Watch a nature film or few. Sometimes the predator starts eating the prey while still alive. This is the world we are from and in reality still live. The local supermarket and the clean looking packaging are only lipstick on that particular pig. Go to a slaughter house some time and then go eat a burger. I can do that. Can you?

I hear all that youre saying, but where do you personally draw the line? How do you feel about the crab or lobster pot? And while we're on the subject what about decorative furs?

 

[twentyleagues]

The concept of humane way to kill is absurd. You are killing it. Now a quick death versus a tortious death is really what we are asking about. Taking a life is taking a life. For lobsters the quickest way to do it is to insert a knife behind the head and cut the head in half length wise. You have to be careful as a toxin is released shortly after death into the meat of a lobster and not cooking it or freezing it asap will result in illness.

 

[Ulu]

All you can really do is source meat and animal products that have been treated/sourced&/slaughtered as humanely as possible or become a vegan. . . .

IME Only a few wealthy nations have the luxury of such things. If you had hungry kids crying from malnutrition (half the 3rd world) well . . . I think things would seem much different.

 

[skjl47]

I hear all that youre saying, but where do you personally draw the line? How do you feel about the crab or lobster pot? And while we're on the subject what about decorative furs?

Hello; Personally huh? I do not hunt for starters. Not because of the killing but because I do not like the mess of dressing out the kill. I also figure it is cheaper to buy meat from a market. I also do not care for the taste of venison that much. Yes I have had venison cooked pretty much every way it can be done. I can eat it bit do not like it enough to hunt.
I do go fishing. Almost all top water fly fishing any more. I do catch and release mostly, only rarely taking fish for eating. I use small hooks that are either barbless or I bend down the barb. I lose most fish his way but the ones I land can usually be released with little to no damage as the hook slip out easy.
Lobster is overrated for taste to me. I do like it well enough but consider it over priced so don't often buy it. Never had it boiled in the shell so am not a part of that scene. Only had crab and lobster as part of a prepared dish. I just do not know which is the best way to kill a crab or lobster so will defer to the centuries of human experience that went before and pick the traditional methods. Folks killing for food treat it as a chore and tend to do it the more efficient way available.

The line for me on furs is where the fur comes from. If from a food animal it is OK. The animal will be killed for the meat so utilize any parts practical and possible. Rabbits, cows, gators, and more meat animals. If a non food animal then I will not have the fur with one exeception. I did buy a small amount of mink fur a few decades ago when I first started tying my own fishing lures. May still be around. I am pretty sure I do not have the hides of any other non food animals around.

I do not like the idea of killing for the thrill of the hunt myself so much but do not condemn others who have that particular blood lust. I would draw a line for animals whose population numbers are questionable, but for numerous populations it is up to the individual. Given a reason I never had any problems with the killing in my youth. I tend to avoid personal killing the last several decades because I do not need to. I guess with sufficient cause I will kill an animal again but have not killed other than insects for a long while.

 

[BichirMohawk]

We all abhor animal cruelty but at the same time some would say we're all a bunch of hypocrites too. Most of us eat meat, eggs, fish, wear leather, whatever, you can see what i'm getting at. We cannot be 100% certain that any of those animals haven't suffered in captivity or the way they've been slaughtered.

Only yesterday I watched an advert on TV. It showed the appalling lives that donkeys in North Africa have to endure. They use them on building sites to carry bricks on their backs. I could have cried for those animals. But yet in the morning I was out in the garden butchering slugs that have been eating my plants!

Is it OK for gardeners to kill slugs? Is it OK to work those donkeys to death in North Africa? Is there a proven humane way of killing your lobster? These are three examples of literally millions of cruelty to animals related issues going on in the world everyday.

Can we stop it through education. I doubt it very much.

P.S. You've got me feeling all guilty now, does anyone know of a humane way to kill slugs?

All you can really do is source meat and animal products that have been treated/sourced&/slaughtered as humanely as possible or become a vegan.
No one has ever solved the best way to kill a lobster, I think sticking it in the freezer for a while first would be best but who really knows.

i agree that the freezer sounds better than the other methods

 

[PYRU]

This is why I don't post videos of my puffers eating crabs etc.

Youre designed to eat meat in your diet. In order for that to happen things have to die. Time to get over it or start eating your broccoli. When I kill something I thank for its sacifrice.

Some people didn't have to slaughter livestock for food growing up and it shows....

Watch a video of a crab getting eaten in the wild. They usually get dismembered and eaten alive back to front.

 

[Ulu]

I shoot targets as a sport. I make precision target ammo & I restore old guns too. I've never been in the service, and am not a hunter; though I've been on hunts for various kinds of birds and game, from Arizona deserts, to the New York & Canadian woods, to the Rocky Mountains & the High Sierra. I've met a lot of hunters, including my father and uncles.

I think much of what passes for blood lust among hunters is misjudged.
It's not about the massacre of animals, except for a very few strange folk.
It's about training and tools. Being able to master and subdue the world by whatever means necessary, to insure human survival.

From hunger, from war, from our own selves?
For whatever purpose it becomes required of us.

 

[Ulu]

BTW, you veggie-only types: thank yer lucky stars that humans don't have to consume live food to breed.
This is common among the few fish I have bred.

 

[twentyleagues]

i agree that the freezer sounds better than the other methods

Well when you freeze it the cells slow till they explode from ice crystals building up inside them. This happens on most cold blooded animals unless they hibernate on a regular basis. Those have an elevated level of glucose in their blood stopping formation of ice crystals. Think frogs, goldfish, some turtles....so on. Sounds painful to me. Thats where the they dont feel like we do comes in.....lies. Dispatch the animal as fast as possible is the least cruel. People confuse being alive with electrical impulses continuing with in a muscle ie beating of a heart. Kill the brain and death is eminent. Cutting off the head is not killing the brain at least not right away. Most slaughter houses imploy a lethal blow to the head to dispatch pigs and cows now and is considered the most "humane" form of dispatch.
As I said earlier with the lobster destroying the brain. But honestly its safest for us to boil it alive as the meat is cooked asap and doesnt have time to build toxins. Unfortunately for crabs it's to hard to destroy the brain so frozen, boil, bake or broil and or torn apart alive is about the only way. I was a cook in a couple higher end restaurants early in life ive killed many crustations. Like everything else you become numb to it after awhile. I dont eat those anymore for the most part. If I do I ask if the chef dispatches the live lobster before boil and I usually get a weird look and if possible the chef may come for a visit. But most often I just dont go to actual seafood restaurants