It should be mentioned that not only does the tank have very high flow for a 75gal, around 21,000L/hr, the tankmates are all somewhat aggressive so the energy of the fish is used up swimming and spread amongst a larger group of fish. I do believe this is what has helped.
Setting up my second loach tank.
- Thread starter MultipleTankSyndrome
- Start date
Good to know. Given the volume of my planned tank I'll have to look into 50,000 l/hr pumps.
Somewhat aggressive (or at least robust) tankmates is also fulfilled by the chalceus, and I'll bear it in mind if I want anything more.
Somewhat aggressive (or at least robust) tankmates is also fulfilled by the chalceus, and I'll bear it in mind if I want anything more.
The volume of circulation has a lot to do with how the flow is setup. Be mindful of how you create the current channels.
I have had 6 chalceus in a 180cm x 45cm x 55cm tank in the past. They are possibly in my bottom 5 fish to keep. I kept them with clown and other fish and they were very skittish and not "fun" to keep. I am interested in seeing how yours turns out.
I have had 6 chalceus in a 180cm x 45cm x 55cm tank in the past. They are possibly in my bottom 5 fish to keep. I kept them with clown and other fish and they were very skittish and not "fun" to keep. I am interested in seeing how yours turns out.
As am I. Thank you as well for the tip on how the flow is set up, I will say that I have also heard before to not just create turbulence when adding flow to a tank.
I'm interested as well. Will be specifically taking steps to ensure that mine won't be ridiculously skittish, based on what I asked in the 'tell me about chalceus' thread.
That will be updated as I go, and hopefully if I succeed in getting a non-skittish fish, sharing what I did will help others as well.
I'm interested as well. Will be specifically taking steps to ensure that mine won't be ridiculously skittish, based on what I asked in the 'tell me about chalceus' thread.
That will be updated as I go, and hopefully if I succeed in getting a non-skittish fish, sharing what I did will help others as well.
Another update. This is perhaps the most irritating of the updates thus far.
Currently on the market for a good enough product to get a flow from end to end of the tank. First, I bought the Sicce XStream 6500 which was marketed as good for tanks up to 750 liters.Yet the flow it produced was not even HALFWAY along the length of my set-up 473 liter (used for experimentation) before it petered out - that and what I'm about to describe are the biggest ripoffs/false advertisements.
So it was returned after describing the issue to the pet store, and I was sold the 8000 model of the XStream with the reassurance that it would be good enough - for a grand total of 225 bucks. A fat load of good it ended up doing, with a flow that barely made it to HALF the tank and that was very weak at that point in the tank anyway. It will be returned on Wednesday when I can next head on over to the pet store.
I have a hunch that this very measly length of flow is due to the wide output of the XStream. Perhaps a narrower outputted Sicce Voyager will fare better, which is what I'll buy on Wednesday.
And of course, if the Sicce pumps can send enough current across the length of the tank, they're absolutely ideal for the rest of my plans. The 360 degree flexibility is very conducive to my previously mentioned plan for flowing top-midwater conditions for the Botia, sharks, and barbs with calm bottom space for the kuhlis (and for the rest to rest in if they so choose).
cockroach
, what product do you use to get flow across the entire 1.22m of your 284 liter? If the Sicce Voyager doesn't work, I might try a 50% greater output version of the product you have (50% greater to suit the 1.83m vs 1.22m length).
Last but not least, there has been a change in the stocking once more. I no longer believe this tank is big enough for a 25cm adult pink tail chalceus (my views on general tank size for fish have changed from 6x the length and 1.5x the width to 8x the length and 2.5-3x the width), so I won't add one to this 1.83m x 47cm footprint tank.
Instead, as with the yoyo loaches, I wait until I get the custom clown loach tank (which will be 2.42m by 78cm in footprint) for it. And of course, in there it will go with the yoyo loaches and clown loaches.
Therefore, unless I decide later I want to add some non-Asian fish, it seems this tank will be an Asian biotope. More specifically an Indo-Malayan biotope.
There's zebra loaches and roseline sharks from India, Burmese loaches and Odessa barbs from Burma, and kuhli loaches from Indonesia, all of which are in Indo-Malaya.
Currently on the market for a good enough product to get a flow from end to end of the tank. First, I bought the Sicce XStream 6500 which was marketed as good for tanks up to 750 liters.Yet the flow it produced was not even HALFWAY along the length of my set-up 473 liter (used for experimentation) before it petered out - that and what I'm about to describe are the biggest ripoffs/false advertisements.
So it was returned after describing the issue to the pet store, and I was sold the 8000 model of the XStream with the reassurance that it would be good enough - for a grand total of 225 bucks. A fat load of good it ended up doing, with a flow that barely made it to HALF the tank and that was very weak at that point in the tank anyway. It will be returned on Wednesday when I can next head on over to the pet store.
I have a hunch that this very measly length of flow is due to the wide output of the XStream. Perhaps a narrower outputted Sicce Voyager will fare better, which is what I'll buy on Wednesday.
And of course, if the Sicce pumps can send enough current across the length of the tank, they're absolutely ideal for the rest of my plans. The 360 degree flexibility is very conducive to my previously mentioned plan for flowing top-midwater conditions for the Botia, sharks, and barbs with calm bottom space for the kuhlis (and for the rest to rest in if they so choose).
cockroach
, what product do you use to get flow across the entire 1.22m of your 284 liter? If the Sicce Voyager doesn't work, I might try a 50% greater output version of the product you have (50% greater to suit the 1.83m vs 1.22m length).Last but not least, there has been a change in the stocking once more. I no longer believe this tank is big enough for a 25cm adult pink tail chalceus (my views on general tank size for fish have changed from 6x the length and 1.5x the width to 8x the length and 2.5-3x the width), so I won't add one to this 1.83m x 47cm footprint tank.
Instead, as with the yoyo loaches, I wait until I get the custom clown loach tank (which will be 2.42m by 78cm in footprint) for it. And of course, in there it will go with the yoyo loaches and clown loaches.
Therefore, unless I decide later I want to add some non-Asian fish, it seems this tank will be an Asian biotope. More specifically an Indo-Malayan biotope.
There's zebra loaches and roseline sharks from India, Burmese loaches and Odessa barbs from Burma, and kuhli loaches from Indonesia, all of which are in Indo-Malaya.
Not entirely sure what it is you are trying to achieve in a tank. In one side you appear to be trying to replicate a stream but to do this you have to put the water in at one end and take it out at the other. This way you can get the flow in higher water and laminate bottom layer. Otherwise the water you are pushing at one end is coming up against water that is not moving or worse still, trying to come back against the water you are pushing. Xstream and the like are designed for none laminate flow ie. To spread the flow around over wide but short areas creating swirling water movement and eddies and alike, especially in marine tanks when multiple are used at differing directions to replicate the sea.
An 8000lhr Jabao actual pump will give a completely different effect than and 8000lhr wave maker.
If you don’t want to use an actual pump then something like two 2000lhr power heads at the same end near the top. Just be warned that decent flow in the middle and some at the far end means water few fish can swim in or appreciate near the powerheads.
Just note that the Xstream and Jabao would all be excellent at mashing up khulis so an enclosed power head with filter cage would be safest option for khulis.
An 8000lhr Jabao actual pump will give a completely different effect than and 8000lhr wave maker.
If you don’t want to use an actual pump then something like two 2000lhr power heads at the same end near the top. Just be warned that decent flow in the middle and some at the far end means water few fish can swim in or appreciate near the powerheads.
Just note that the Xstream and Jabao would all be excellent at mashing up khulis so an enclosed power head with filter cage would be safest option for khulis.
In my 7Another update. This is perhaps the most irritating of the updates thus far.
Currently on the market for a good enough product to get a flow from end to end of the tank. First, I bought the Sicce XStream 6500 which was marketed as good for tanks up to 750 liters.Yet the flow it produced was not even HALFWAY along the length of my set-up 473 liter (used for experimentation) before it petered out - that and what I'm about to describe are the biggest ripoffs/false advertisements.
So it was returned after describing the issue to the pet store, and I was sold the 8000 model of the XStream with the reassurance that it would be good enough - for a grand total of 225 bucks. A fat load of good it ended up doing, with a flow that barely made it to HALF the tank and that was very weak at that point in the tank anyway. It will be returned on Wednesday when I can next head on over to the pet store.
I have a hunch that this very measly length of flow is due to the wide output of the XStream. Perhaps a narrower outputted Sicce Voyager will fare better, which is what I'll buy on Wednesday.
And of course, if the Sicce pumps can send enough current across the length of the tank, they're absolutely ideal for the rest of my plans. The 360 degree flexibility is very conducive to my previously mentioned plan for flowing top-midwater conditions for the Botia, sharks, and barbs with calm bottom space for the kuhlis (and for the rest to rest in if they so choose).
Last but not least, there has been a change in the stocking once more. I no longer believe this tank is big enough for a 25cm adult pink tail chalceus (my views on general tank size for fish have changed from 6x the length and 1.5x the width to 8x the length and 2.5-3x the width), so I won't add one to this 1.83m x 47cm footprint tank.
Instead, as with the yoyo loaches, I wait until I get the custom clown loach tank (which will be 2.42m by 78cm in footprint) for it. And of course, in there it will go with the yoyo loaches and clown loaches.
Therefore, unless I decide later I want to add some non-Asian fish, it seems this tank will be an Asian biotope. More specifically an Indo-Malayan biotope.
There's zebra loaches and roseline sharks from India, Burmese loaches and Odessa barbs from Burma, and kuhli loaches from Indonesia, all of which are in Indo-Malaya.
I use almost solely circulation pumps in my non plumbed tanks. Placement of the pumps is key to getting flow right.
As
Fishman Dave
mentioned. your water is pushing back against the flow. This, in my limited experience, can be mitigated in 2 ways:a. Use a false bottom. This works well but requires very high flow. My 75gal (284L) tank has a total of 21,000L (5547gal). 1 x 3000L (792 gal) and 1 x 18,000L (4755gal) pump. The larger pump pulls water below the false bottom and pushes it out (right), the smaller goes to filters and return at the surface at the opposite end of the tank in the opposite direction (left). This causes a vortex and moves a column of water.
b. Create a vortex in your tank by placing the pump in either back corner, blowing along the back of the tank. It will hit the side glass, push to the front pane and travel back along along the front pane of glass in the opposite direction to the output. For this to work, leave an inch or two gap behind the decor along the back wall leaving a channel for the water to move down unobstructed.
For a calmer bottom place rocks to the height you need along the side wall and it will cause the water to flow over making calmer spots. This needs a less powerful pump and the size you have should work with careful scaping.
If you look at the kribensis stream tank I set up a few years ago, it worked well and I believe the pump was only 5000L/hr (1320gal).
The idea is the decor stops the water pushing back on itself and makes channels to flow.
I assume the coloured lines are the respective flight paths for individual loaches.
Thank you so much to all! Lots of things I hadn't known or considered in setting this up, and better to know about them now than to have them pop up and appear as serious problems.
For Fishman Dave, indeed, I am trying to essentially replicate a stream for the high-flow part of the tank.
By in one end and out the other, do you mean the output of the pump should be blasting the water well away from the input? If so, that and cockroach's tips are definitely things to watch out for.
What you said about XStream makes sense, and Jebao is also another product I could give a try. Just going to have to cage it in like you said, or put pantyhose over the input to keep the kuhli loaches safe.
The diagram by cockroach is very useful with regards to being mindful of the amount of flow. For both electrical bills and equipment cost bills, I am not looking for so much flow that it bounces back and has to be channeled.
I'm instead looking to have enough flow to get along the length of the tank* for the top-midwater flowing section, but not enough to have the flow pushing on itself, and if I do get flow pushing on itself, cockroach's tips on putting the pump in the corner and arranging the decor so it forms calm spots are good.
I would draw a diagram of it but I can't find any useable paper. Hopefully my description will suffice.
*I was always under the impression that for riverine species, most or all of the length of the tank should be flowing. If that isn't required for thriving fish though, I won't be spending more than I need.
Concerning also what Fishman Dave said about few fish being able to appreciate the flow if there is too much flow away from whatever's making the flow, I expect the flow will decrease the further from the pump.
For Fishman Dave, indeed, I am trying to essentially replicate a stream for the high-flow part of the tank.
By in one end and out the other, do you mean the output of the pump should be blasting the water well away from the input? If so, that and cockroach's tips are definitely things to watch out for.
What you said about XStream makes sense, and Jebao is also another product I could give a try. Just going to have to cage it in like you said, or put pantyhose over the input to keep the kuhli loaches safe.
The diagram by cockroach is very useful with regards to being mindful of the amount of flow. For both electrical bills and equipment cost bills, I am not looking for so much flow that it bounces back and has to be channeled.
I'm instead looking to have enough flow to get along the length of the tank* for the top-midwater flowing section, but not enough to have the flow pushing on itself, and if I do get flow pushing on itself, cockroach's tips on putting the pump in the corner and arranging the decor so it forms calm spots are good.
I would draw a diagram of it but I can't find any useable paper. Hopefully my description will suffice.
*I was always under the impression that for riverine species, most or all of the length of the tank should be flowing. If that isn't required for thriving fish though, I won't be spending more than I need.
Concerning also what Fishman Dave said about few fish being able to appreciate the flow if there is too much flow away from whatever's making the flow, I expect the flow will decrease the further from the pump.
There are a variety of steam manifold designs, are they not what you are looking for?
