Setting up my second loach tank.

fishdance

Goliath Tigerfish
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I used to think more pumps and filters were better but in reality, this simply increases the chance sonethinf will fail, tripping off the electrical safety switch so the whole tank loses power.

I use 3 separate electrical circuits per tank nowadays (one circuit reserved only for air pumps that is backed up during power outages) but I still reduce the number of pumps and filters.
 

MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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You seem to believe that he, with his site, is the end all authority about loaches
Certainly not the end all authority. As he says himself:
Are you nuts? I would NEVER profess to knowing that much and anyone who does is full of it. We're all learning every day.

He just happens to know very well what he's talking about in the field of setting up a river tank, at least for the most part. For example, his article on oxygen (one of this river tank's primary aims): https://www.loaches.com/articles/oxygen-in-the-aquarium

Considering his fish have made it through a heatwave that brought their tank up to 32 degrees (his clown loach tank) and 27 degrees (his hillstream loach tank), in both cases enough above normal for a significant reduction in oxygen, that would indicate to me that he did something right. Not to mention how well his fish did in general.

I'll agree, though, that some of what he says can very well be third hand. For example, he didn't leave many calm spots at the bottom to rest like this tank will have, even though you have observed Botia habitat with a number of them.
And in his article, he encourages planted tanks for high oxygen fish, despite them depleting oxygen 50 percent of time time and being very capable of clogging equipment+killing fish like what happened to him: https://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2816

And thank you for the compliment+concern. I am quite touched by both.
 
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MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Here's some hithero undiscussed information on oxygenation I hadn't thought of until now, together with some extra-rigorous bonus on stocking/fish mass in this tank vs Martin Thoene's tank. It looks like with every new comment I make, the better off this setup appears.

Fish mass/stocking in Martin Thoene's tank:

-18x Botia in the 9-13cm range. Exact number of each species varied depending on what was purchased when and what survived his plant-filter blockage, but post-blockage he had 10x clown loach, 4x golden zebra loach, 3x Burmese loach, and 1x adopted Bengal loach.
-13x bronze catfish.
-20x tiger barb.
-1x filament barb.

Hitherto undiscussed oxygenation factors:

-Water temperature of 28.1 degrees.
-Large masses of live plants. Depending on whether it's day or night, these either drastically increase or decrease oxygen in a 12 hour period.

Fish mass/stocking in this tank:

-Also 18x Botia in the 9-13cm range, with 9x zebra and 9x Burmese. This is probably somewhat less of an overall Botia mass than in Martin's tank, given how slender zebra and Burmese loaches are compared to the chunky clown loaches making up most of the Botia there. I'll guesstimate 20% less based on the pictures of Martin's clowns compared to Loaches Online's pictures of zebras and Burmese.
-48x kuhli loach, even mix of striped and black. These are probably this tank's equivalent to Martin's bronze catfish, and my guess is that they equate to about 30% more fish mass based on the 6cm adult size of a bronze catfish visually approximating the mass of 3x 7.6cm kuhli loaches.
-9-13x Odessa barb. These reach an adult size of only 4cm compared to the 7cm adult size of the tiger barb, and are also about 10% smaller in height and girth relative to their length, giving a mass 10-14.4x less than the tiger barbs.
-9x roseline shark. These attain the same length and girth as filament barbs, but only have about half the body depth, giving the 9 roseline sharks 4.5 times more mass than the filament barb.

My (very rough) guess is that this is overall comparable fish mass than Martin Thoene's tank. This is based on pictures of his fish to the appropriate scale with pictures of the fish I will get.

Hithero undiscussed oxygenation factors:

-Water temperature to be somewhere between 23-25 degrees. This will allow for more dissolved oxygen, up to a full ppm more based on this chart:
1655773585884.png

-No live plants. This means I'll need more surface agitation to get as much or more daytime oxygen, but can also maintain that oxygen well at night.
I think that will be more than doable, though. Here's the the surface agitation all 8214 l/hr of his flow gives, compared to only the Sicce XStream in my tank (which is of course only half the total flow).
As you can see, even at only half of what it will be, it makes quite a bit more surface agitation. Together with the Sicce Voyager and the lower water temperature, I think the oxygenation will be even greater than what the greater amount of flow alone suggests, and so enough or more than enough to make up for no plants.
Not to mention, with the greater agitation is more potential to mix/circulate the tank well. This gets the oxygen-rich water mixed throughout the water column.
1655775152618.png1655775095429.png

I am just so proud of how well set-up this tank will be. :cool:
 
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jjohnwm

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I'm almost frightened to contemplate the mathematical avalanche that I may be triggering here...but I wonder where you obtained that 4cm length for Odessas. It sounded odd; after translating to English I see why. 4cm is only 1.57480315 inches. Of the group of Odessas in my tank, even the smallest are at least 2.5 inches (6.35cm) and the largest are at least 3 inches or a whopping 7.62 cm!

I immediately checked...wait for it...wait...okay, that's enough...Seriously Fish (just on a hunch) and sure enough they claim 4 to 4.5 cm. But virtually every other source lists lengths of 3 or even 4 inches. Four inches! Ten point one six cm!!!!

Uh-oh. Martin? MAAARRRTINNNNN!!!!!!!!????? :nilly:
 

Ogertron3000

Potamotrygon
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This is a very interesting but somewhat confusing thread. All the formulas and maths are blowing my mind a bit.

I think its great that you are aiming for the best possible conditions for the fish and setting up a tank for a specific species of fish is always cool and you can get it right from the start.

Is it possible you are overthinking things a bit? The numbers and mathematics seem to be a bit overwhelming. It looks like you are enjoying yourself figuring it all out but dont get too "mad scientist" about it. Keep things fun for yourself , as interesting as this all is it has the potential to become overwhelming and ruin your enjoyment of the whole process.\

But after all its really none of my business, good luck with it. Im looking forward to seeing the finished product at the end of all the calculations.
 

Friller2009

Aimara
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This is a very interesting but somewhat confusing thread. All the formulas and maths are blowing my mind a bit.

I think its great that you are aiming for the best possible conditions for the fish and setting up a tank for a specific species of fish is always cool and you can get it right from the start.

Is it possible you are overthinking things a bit? The numbers and mathematics seem to be a bit overwhelming. It looks like you are enjoying yourself figuring it all out but dont get too "mad scientist" about it. Keep things fun for yourself , as interesting as this all is it has the potential to become overwhelming and ruin your enjoyment of the whole process.\

But after all its really none of my business, good luck with it. Im looking forward to seeing the finished product at the end of all the calculations.
Too many numbers for me.:nilly::nilly::nilly:
 
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MultipleTankSyndrome

Giant Snakehead
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Ogertron3000 Ogertron3000 It's funny, I had actually originally typed into my comment 'Since Martin's tank was the inspiration for this tank, as many comparisons between this tank and it will be made along the way as I see fit. The end result will be more satisfying to compare with it that way'.
That got accidentally backspaced and you reminded me with your comment, lol. Still, I appreciate the concern and compliments.
 
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Backfromthedead

Potamotrygon
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I'm almost frightened to contemplate the mathematical avalanche that I may be triggering here...but I wonder where you obtained that 4cm length for Odessas. It sounded odd; after translating to English I see why. 4cm is only 1.57480315 inches. Of the group of Odessas in my tank, even the smallest are at least 2.5 inches (6.35cm) and the largest are at least 3 inches or a whopping 7.62 cm!

I immediately checked...wait for it...wait...okay, that's enough...Seriously Fish (just on a hunch) and sure enough they claim 4 to 4.5 cm. But virtually every other source lists lengths of 3 or even 4 inches. Four inches! Ten point one six cm!!!!

Uh-oh. Martin? MAAARRRTINNNNN!!!!!!!!????? :nilly:
Possible the smaller source is citing SL vs TL in the larger source?
 
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jjohnwm

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Possible the smaller source is citing SL vs TL in the larger source?
So...the Odessa has a body length of 1.5 inches...with a tail fin stretching out an additional 2.5 inches? :ROFL:
 
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