outdoor stock tanks...successes and failures

[Friller2009]

I actually kept the water level a few inches lower in that tank than I normally would, wondering if that was a possibility. I guess I won't know for sure for a couple more weeks yet.

Nasties in my ponds? Well...I lost an entire tank of my beloved Goodeids once when a couple of blackbirds drowned in it...likely while catching and eating my fish!...and sank to the bottom while I was away for a few days, fouling the water beyond belief. I have lost a number of larger fish, mostly cichlids, to mink who would dive and catch them; that turned into a literal running gun battle.

We won't even go into detail about the stock tank that the bear climbed into, had a nice bath, took a giant crap in and then left...except to say that I was able to save many of those fish thanks to an unpleasant clean-up.

I have wood and chicken wire tops made up in case mink or bird predation becomes an issue again. I don't worry too much about dragonflies, water beetles and their larvae, backswimmers, etc.; I don't doubt that I lose some fry and smaller fish to those bugs, but to me that's part and parcel of keeping the fish outdoors. In fact, my inground pond was originally intended not to have fish in it; I quite enjoyed just sitting next to it and watching all the little creepy crawlies go about their business just under the surface. I only started keeping fish out there in response to the mosquitoes which, unsurprisingly in hindsight, began breeding like gangbusters.

I'm not specifically trying to breed my fish; I just want to keep them in the best conditions I can, to observe them acting as naturally as they are able. That usually includes inciting them to breed...but also includes expecting many of the fry to be eaten by...whatever.

Bloody hell mate I think I’ll take my waterboatmen bites than a bear haha

 

[jjohnwm]

Well...the fall teardown has begun.

We've had a few coolish days and even coolisher-er nights; air temperatures have dropped down to the low 40's (F) on a couple of occasions. Water temperatures have been as low as 48F in the mornings, warming back up into the low 60F-range when the sun warms things up.

So, despite the forecast calling for another warmer spell this week, I decided not to take chances and started bringing fish indoors. Every fish species I have outside has no problem dealing with this type of temperature range; it happens almost every year. Swordtails, Mollies, Heterandria, Jordanella, Gymnogeophagus, Cichlasoma dimerus, all can get down to the low 50's, for a continuous few days or weeks, and down into the 40's for at least a few hours on cold nights.

The exceptions are Bristlenose Plecos and Megalechis "Hoplo" cats; I started with them today and brought both indoors. I had apparently lost one adult Bristlenose (of the four I placed outdoors) and found only 12 young, but I think this is due more to the sedentary, bottom-dwelling nature of these fish rather than the recent temperature drop. They live right next to dragonfly nymphs and water tigers, and I think they pay the price; they don't lay huge number of eggs either.

I also lost one of the 6 Megalechis picta cats, and found no young at all. I had seen a couple of bubble nests but never spotted any young...but of course I had never seen the adults either since last spring. Insect predation? Predation by the adults on the fry? Dunno. M.thoracatum has done better for me outside, so maybe I'll try them again next year.

Gymnogeophagus rhabdotus did well again...so well that I found them in both tanks that flanked theirs, and even a single one two tanks over! Last year's spawn has grown big and beautiful in the sunshine, and I have probably 100 or so 3/8- to 1/2-inch fry. I love these little guys.

The best part of summertime stocktank ponds:





The worst part:



Don't even get me started on the upcoming need to go wading for goldfish in the inground pond....

 

[AR1]

Well...the fall teardown has begun.

We've had a few coolish days and even coolisher-er nights; air temperatures have dropped down to the low 40's (F) on a couple of occasions. Water temperatures have been as low as 48F in the mornings, warming back up into the low 60F-range when the sun warms things up.

So, despite the forecast calling for another warmer spell this week, I decided not to take chances and started bringing fish indoors. Every fish species I have outside has no problem dealing with this type of temperature range; it happens almost every year. Swordtails, Mollies, Heterandria, Jordanella, Gymnogeophagus, Cichlasoma dimerus, all can get down to the low 50's, for a continuous few days or weeks, and down into the 40's for at least a few hours on cold nights.

The exceptions are Bristlenose Plecos and Megalechis "Hoplo" cats; I started with them today and brought both indoors. I had apparently lost one adult Bristlenose (of the four I placed outdoors) and found only 12 young, but I think this is due more to the sedentary, bottom-dwelling nature of these fish rather than the recent temperature drop. They live right next to dragonfly nymphs and water tigers, and I think they pay the price; they don't lay huge number of eggs either.

I also lost one of the 6 Megalechis picta cats, and found no young at all. I had seen a couple of bubble nests but never spotted any young...but of course I had never seen the adults either since last spring. Insect predation? Predation by the adults on the fry? Dunno. M.thoracatum has done better for me outside, so maybe I'll try them again next year.

Gymnogeophagus rhabdotus did well again...so well that I found them in both tanks that flanked theirs, and even a single one two tanks over! Last year's spawn has grown big and beautiful in the sunshine, and I have probably 100 or so 3/8- to 1/2-inch fry. I love these little guys.

The best part of summertime stocktank ponds:
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The worst part:
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View attachment 1549824

Don't even get me started on the upcoming need to go wading for goldfish in the inground pond....

That's a nice-looking yard you've got there, John! I'm assuming it will be turning pure white in the upcoming months with all the snowfall?

Sorry for your losses, but happy to hear about your achievements as well!

I have one question—why aren't those stock ponds in-ground? It seems like that could provide more structural integrity, hide the less pleasant view, and even help with insulation, which might allow you to leave some of the more cold-tolerant species out there.

And finally, I've heard that goldfish can survive freezing water, so why bother bringing them in?

 

[jjohnwm]

That's a nice-looking yard you've got there, John! I'm assuming it will be turning pure white in the upcoming months with all the snowfall?

Sorry for your losses, but happy to hear about your achievements as well!

I have one question—why aren't those stock ponds in-ground? It seems like that could provide more structural integrity, hide the less pleasant view, and even help with insulation, which might allow you to leave some of the more cold-tolerant species out there.

And finally, I've heard that goldfish can survive freezing water, so why bother bringing them in?

Lol, goldfish (along with Rosy Reds, among others) are indeed completely capable of living in water that is frozen over...but they can't live if encased in solid ice, as they would be here. My inground pond is about 3.5 feet deep, which means that it will be solidly frozen right to the bottom for probably three months each year. No bueno.

Burying the stocktanks would have some of the advantages you mention, but it would also be a crapload of work to do! I'm not certain if the expanding ice would crack the tanks or not, and don't want to experiment with the possibility. If it were to work, I'm pretty sure that it would require carefully backfilling around the stocktank, filling all the gaps between it and the dug hole with sand? Or would it? It would definitely make emptying the tanks a lot more work; I'd need to pump them out, rather than just siphoning or opening the drain on the bottom of each one. Catching the fish would be more work as well; as it is now, I siphon the tanks down to a few inches, prop them up at one end to concentrate the fish, and then easily net them out.

A quick hosedown now cleans the tanks out in the fall; if they were buried, then every drop of water I put in for cleaning would need to be pumped back out, instead of just tipping them over for cleaning.

 

[cockroach]

Great looking fish.

I tend to agree with you the extra work outweighs the benefits. But, playing on that idea, what if you built up around the tubs? So the bottoms are on the ground, but the rims are just above the raised soil line. Gets the benefits of both in ground and above ground. Or am I missing something?

That is also a lot of set up and work to do.
Something like this if my description wasn't clear.


However, looking at it now. It would mean bending over every time to look into it or catch fish. Which for me would make it more work yet again.

 

[jjohnwm]

However, looking at it now. It would mean bending over every time to look into it or catch fish. Which for me would make it more work yet again.

Yep, harder to watch 'em, harder to get at 'em, PITA cutting the grass (I already do way too much of that), not to mention the initial drudgery of moving all that dirt in the first place.

I don't mind doing a big job if it saves me work on an ongoing basis down the line; stuff like permanent drain lines linking all my tanks to an outdoor drain, or installing semi-permanent lines to re-fill tanks. But backfilling around these stocktanks would be a ton of work that would make me less comfortable in future, not more so.

Remember, too, that most of these fish only spend 4 months or so outside; even the most cold-hardy are still indoors for at least half the year.

 

[cockroach]

Didn't consider the limited outdoor time as we don't have that issue here.

 

[Chub_by]

Great thread, very enjoyable read and I look forward to seeing more pictures Oversummmering fish outdoors was one of my favourite parts of the hobby when I was still active.

 

[jjohnwm]

...Oversummmering fish outdoors was one of my favourite parts of the hobby...

Mine too...except for the end-of-season clean-up. Setting up the tanks in spring, after a long winter indoors, is a lot of work but very exciting and satisfying.

Taking everything down in the fall is mostly drudgery. Aside from the anticipation of finding newly spawned fish, it's mostly just hard messy work. My tanks are almost all so choked with plants...floating and potted, submersed and emersed...that I spend a ridiculous amount of time just sitting next to the tank, pulling out a small netful of vegetation, sorting carefully through it for fry and small fish, then tossing it aside and repeating the process ad nauseum. I always start off counting individual fry I locate this way...invariably lose track of the number as they are transferred in ones and twos into the waiting bucket...and intersperse this process with trying to avoid being bitten by the Dytiscid beetles and the Giant Water Bugs that live in all the tanks. If they're not bad enough, we have plenty of Backswimmers as well, which are much smaller, easier to miss while sorting...and bite just as hard. We also have huge numbers of Water Boatmen, which are very small and don't bite, but which invariably make their way into the house with the fish and then take flight in the evening.

As it turns out, I did indeed lose all the Chlamydogobius; definitely my biggest pond-related disappointment this year. I was able to find only 2 male and a single female Heterandria which were not visibly deformed; I will give them a chance but if their forthcoming young this winter continue to show these poor genetics...and I'm sure they will... I will end the line. And the Hoplos, while growing big and beautiful and despite building several bubblenests, didn't have any surviving young.

I now have everything emptied out except for the inground pond; that's a whole separate adventure upon which I will embark in the next couple weeks, and which will likely take several days all on its own. I've had a couple of traps set in there for the past week or so, but have caught only 2 of the larger goldfish and a couple dozen of this year's youngsters. Lots of work still to do.

Hunting season is upon us, so this needs to get done now!