a northern pike in a 300g tank?

[ammerman19]

im done with this one

Good. If you feel like discussing this further you can pm me and we can get on MSN or something. And no I don't regularly cath 40-50 inchers but my average would be above what I would recommend keeping in a 300. If my pike averaged 16"-20" I would never fish for them. As for Aro's I don't think most live long enough to reach that size. I'd have to refresh myself on the "Oldest Aro" thread but I really don't feel like it unless you want to keep up your argument that a northern pike will only grow to 20" in home aquaria.

 

[sandtiger]

why man? arows are said to reach 48 inches in the wild and arows have been kept for along time so eveyone here that owns a arow has crappy water conditions cause ive never seen one even close to that size and the same for clown knives such of a common fish . alot of people on here have them but there not 3 ft and larger like in the wild and why dont u believe me about 5 yrs for 24 inch growth rate . that is a dirrect statment made by minnesota department of natural resources. ive also shown that it is unlikely for pike to grow over 40 inches and u seem like u catch 40 and 50 inch pike all the time. im done with this one

In case you missed it, here is what I wrote before...

A fish should never stop growing unless you're doing something wrong with it. There is no reason to think that a pike would stop growing if kept properly. In addition to the constant high temps that you mention other things may give it an advantage over growing in the wild. A constant food supply, less energy use and a longer lifespan all give it an edge.

I honestly don't know why we're having this discussion. There are three perfectly good members of the pike family that would do far better in aquaria then a Northern. Both grass and redfin pickerel stay under 15". If you want something larger the chain pikerel reach about 35". All three of these fish behave in much the same way as pike and all IMO look better.

 

[focker]

you got a link? I don't see it the Mn DNR home page, only thing I saw was something written by some guide

sry i didnt see ur post but yes here is a link from ur state resouces.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=11014700
All age classes between age-1 and age-7 were sampled by gill net. Northern pike ages 2 to 5 were similarly represented in the gill net catch. Northern pike reached an average length of 24.7 inches at age 5.

 

[sandtiger]

sry i didnt see ur post but yes here is a link from ur state resouces.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=11014700
All age classes between age-1 and age-7 were sampled by gill net. Northern pike ages 2 to 5 were similarly represented in the gill net catch. Northern pike reached an average length of 24.7 inches at age 5.

The size they reach in the wild is useless, be it in MN, PA or the Great Lakes. In aquaria wild growth rates can be tossed out the window because the environment is completely different. What we do know that is kept properly a captive norhtern pike will...

-Live a long time, longer then wild counterparts (hopefully).
-Be exposed to a constant temp, probably a warm temp. Fish grow faster in warmer waters.
- Have a constant supply of food. Wild fish often go without eating
- More energy reserves. A captive fish barely has to move. There is no need to hunt, no predators to escape from
-Clean water, free of pollution
-No diseases or parasites.

Sounds like prime conditions for optimal growth don't you think?
So even if it took a pike 5 years to reach 24" in the wild the same might not be true in aquaria. When giving advice for stocking it's more important to look at the maximum size these fish can reach and not the average size of wild fish in a given location.

 

[focker]

The size they reach in the wild is useless, be it in MN, PA or the Great Lakes. In aquaria wild growth rates can be tossed out the window because the environment is completely different. What we do know that is kept properly a captive norhtern pike will...

-Live a long time, longer then wild counterparts (hopefully).
-Be exposed to a constant temp, probably a warm temp. Fish grow faster in warmer waters.
- Have a constant supply of food. Wild fish often go without eating
- More energy reserves. A captive fish barely has to move. There is no need to hunt, no predators to escape from
-Clean water, free of pollution
-No diseases or parasites.

Sounds like prime conditions for optimal growth don't you think?
So even if it took a pike 5 years to reach 24" in the wild the same might not be true in aquaria. When giving advice for stocking it's more important to look at the maximum size these fish can reach and not the average size of wild fish in a given location.

no i dont think so at all. all fish grow faster in larger tanks take 400 fry of any fish and raise them in a 50 gallon and take the same amount of fry and raise them in a 150 gallon and feed them the same and keep ur water quality the same and the fish in the 150 will way out grow the ones in the 50 gallon if u ever breed any fish then u will know this. so that same pike is being kept down from much smaller living space.

 

[sandtiger]

no i dont think so at all. all fish grow faster in larger tanks take 400 fry of any fish and raise them in a 50 gallon and take the same amount of fry and raise them in a 150 gallon and feed them the same and keep ur water quality the same and the fish in the 150 will way out grow the ones in the 50 gallon if u ever breed any fish then u will know this. so that same pike is being kept down from much smaller living space.

You're wrong. Tanksize does not matter, water quality does. If you can get a copy I suggest to read the article "Fish Growth vs. Tank Size in the December 2006 issue of Tropical Fish Hobbiest. In said issue it talks about an experiment done by discus breeder Jack Wattley. He kept two groups of discus in two different containers. Some in a large container and the others in another barely a 12th the size of the larger. All the water properties were the same (pH, temp etc.) and the fish were fed the same diet. He did 6-8 90% water changes on the smaller tank every day. He did a 40% water change on the larger tank once a day. A month later the fish in the smaller tank were twice the size of the fish in the larger tank.

The "fish grow to the size of their tank" rule is a complete and total myth and if it were true you wouldn't have so many people needing to find homes for their huge pacu that have outgrown their aquariums. The myth also does not make any sense, fish cannot stop growing simply becuase they're in a glass box.

 

[focker]

ok i can buy some of that but explain to me why u havent seen arows and clowns super huge. they do stop growing in most occasions. ive seen a 6 yr old clown knife and it was about 20 inches. also i am breeding fish right now but my largest quantities of fish are my red jewels and everytime the batch i put in the bigger tank way outgrows the ones i put in the smaller tank and i keep my water crystal. so maybe his discus were backwards or maybe my jewels are backwards but what i found of my fry is completely opposite of that of those discus u speak of.

 

[bigsmooth]

sry i didnt see ur post but yes here is a link from ur state resouces.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=11014700
All age classes between age-1 and age-7 were sampled by gill net. Northern pike ages 2 to 5 were similarly represented in the gill net catch. Northern pike reached an average length of 24.7 inches at age 5.

yeah, winnie is a great lake to fish. good walleye action. I live about 14 miles from it

 

[sandtiger]

ok i can buy some of that but explain to me why u havent seen arows and clowns super huge. they do stop growing in most occasions. ive seen a 6 yr old clown knife and it was about 20 inches.

Yeah? And what conditions was it being kept it? There are LOTS of factors that can influence fish growth. Stress, diet, water quality, tankmates, photo-period. Also, clown knifes can live over 10 year, the CK you saw was middle aged, still a lot of time left for growth. They will slow down a lot and in negative conditions they can grow even slower or even stop (stunting) but when kept in the right conditions they will grow as they age. The reason most people here don't have super huge arowana, CK, pbass or whatever is simply because they haven't had the fish long enough or are keeping it in negative conditions.

also i am breeding fish right now but my largest quantities of fish are my red jewels and everytime the batch i put in the bigger tank way outgrows the ones i put in the smaller tank and i keep my water crystal.

What are you're water readings for both tanks? What tank is more heavily stocked? Where are the tanks located in your home? How much light do they recieve. In order to make a claim like your's you must pay close attention to every detail. Simply having a tank in a better lit room or less stressful location within the house will play a factor in growth.

so maybe his discus were backwards or maybe my jewels are backwards but what i found of my fry is completely opposite of that of those discus u speak of.

Jack Wattley has some of the best discus money can buy.
http://www.wattleydiscus.com/

 

[TheBloodyIrish]

Every fishkeeper is different. Every aquarium is different. Some fish grow faster in some water conditions, others don't. It all varies. All we can do is say: this work for me.

Some fish grow bigger in captive environments; others don't. It's that simple. Pikes need a lot of room, regardless of size.