I need help I have a pretty bad case of Bloat in my cichlid tank. I have lost several cichlids but no other fish, yet. I purchased lots of Clout but want to know if anyone has used this to treat Bloat with catfish in the tank. I have 4 Cats 2 Pictus and 2 Syno's. The Syno's are huge and I am worried about losing them. The Pictus are pretty big and I don't want to lose them either. I have nowhere to put them while I medicate so I am hoping someone has used clout on a tank with cats. Please help......
Bloat!!!
- Thread starter EastCoast280
- Start date
I'd certainly avoid it if possible. Have you already done all the usual, epsom salt, heat bump, etc.? If so, you might want to try a medicated food or gentler broad-spectrum antibiotic before something cataclysmic like clout. Bloat is nasty, though, so I do understand jumping to clout. The catfish will absorb a lot of the medication, though, so if you're trying to treat the cichlids, you might just end up toxifying the cats and missing the cichlids entirely.
You don't necessarily need another tank to medicate. Rubbermaid tubs and other containers work fine if they are clean, heated and filtered.
And remember that clout will completely wipe out your nitrifying bacteria and you'll have to cycle whatever filter you've exposed to clout all over again.
You don't necessarily need another tank to medicate. Rubbermaid tubs and other containers work fine if they are clean, heated and filtered.
And remember that clout will completely wipe out your nitrifying bacteria and you'll have to cycle whatever filter you've exposed to clout all over again.
I have been doing what I can to fight the bloat but I am still losing fish every few days. I lost my two best peacocks a Super Red Empress and a Electric Blue Hap, both were about 7 inches and I can't believe they are gone. Right now I am not feeding them and added salt along with some water changes but with 400 gallons of water between tank and sump it is getting hard to keep up.
Has anyone treated with clout while keeping their cats in the tank?
Has anyone treated with clout while keeping their cats in the tank?
I;ve never used clout. However, I;ve used Parasite Clear on many occasions. It's a good BROAD SPECTRUM parasite treatment and it does NOT harm your beneficial bacteria (atleast in my experience; however, DO NOT FEED while doing treatment). AND I have used Parasite clear with my plecos (with no ill effects).
I agree with knifegill, try using epsom salt (its different from regular aquarium salt). Epsom salt is supposed to act as a natural laxative.
I agree with knifegill, try using epsom salt (its different from regular aquarium salt). Epsom salt is supposed to act as a natural laxative.
OK all else has failed and I had to dose with the Clout. So far I have lost about 10 cichlids, so I am hoping I don't lose any more. I have never had any fish come down with Bloat but then again this is my first venture into cichlids. My tank was saltwater for the last 10+ years. After getting bored with that I decided to go back to freshwater. So far this is more work than the saltwater tank was, who knew!!! I removed the Cats and the Botia's and they are swimming in the bathtub. Thanks for the responses earlier but like I said before I had already tried the "gentle approach".
You're still not providing enough details for us to know what caused the bloating issue.
What do you feed your fish? Schedule?
Tank maintenance schedule?
Tank size?
Inventory of all fish in there?
Temperature?
Water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH)?
What were the meds you used before?
What salt did you use?
What do you feed your fish? Schedule?
Tank maintenance schedule?
Tank size?
Inventory of all fish in there?
Temperature?
Water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH)?
What were the meds you used before?
What salt did you use?
There are many things that can cause bloating, constipation and dropsy being the main two.
Dropsy;
The problem with treating this disease is that there are a number of "potential" causes: bacterial infection, parasites, cancerous tumors, virus', internal fungal infections or sudden temperature drop of more than 3 degrees.
If the cause is bacterial, the swelling typically comes on pretty rapidly. If swelling is gradual then one or more of the other potential causes are more likely. Unfortunately, treatment is most often useless at this point due to the advanced state of the disease process. When the illness, whatever the cause, has progressed far enough to cause internal swelling, the concomitant internal damage is usually too extensive to be repairable.
The latest research has shown that if the disease cause is bacterial and if the disease process is caught early enough, treatment with Romet B, a broad spectrum antibacterial, *may* be effective when used concurrent with an increase in water temperature to 84-86ºF for 2 weeks minimum.
BE CERTAIN to maintain HIGH OXYGEN LEVELS during such treatment since at these temperatures, water holds significantly less oxygen at these higher water temperatures. One of the suspected bacterial precursors to the disease process -- Aeromonas, is killed at these temperatures.
Concurrently add 1/8 teaspoon of EPSOM SALT -- per 5 gallons of water . Feeding foods soaked in ERYTHROMYCIN will kill the second suspected bacteria, Mycobacterium. In rare cases popeye has been found to be caused by Edwardsiella etarda. This is found *only* in fish that have been bred in outdoor ponds -- the functional bacteria in this case is carried by frogs. While fair to good results in treatment have been found by feeding Romet B., even better results have been found using injectable chloramphenicol or amakacin. This is best done by your veterinarian.
If parasites are a known cause, treat for them first for 3 days increasing the temperature to 86ºF as fast as possible.
EPSOM SALT may help reduce the internal pressure caused by the swelling. Extremely good aeration is necessary here due to the use of such high temperatures.
NEVER USE SALT (sodium chloride, a.k.a. aquarium salt) for treatment of dropsy. This will KILL your fish in a very short time. The affected fish are already having a difficult time getting rid of salts due to kidney dysfunction. This causes the blown up appearance and concurrent scale standing. The osmotic imbalance caused by addition of sodium to your tank water will make this condition far worse.
EPSOM SALT on the other hand, does not pass through the walls of the gut or gills and will extract water OUT of the surrounding tissue into the gut where it *may* be excreted.
Dropsy;
The problem with treating this disease is that there are a number of "potential" causes: bacterial infection, parasites, cancerous tumors, virus', internal fungal infections or sudden temperature drop of more than 3 degrees.
If the cause is bacterial, the swelling typically comes on pretty rapidly. If swelling is gradual then one or more of the other potential causes are more likely. Unfortunately, treatment is most often useless at this point due to the advanced state of the disease process. When the illness, whatever the cause, has progressed far enough to cause internal swelling, the concomitant internal damage is usually too extensive to be repairable.
The latest research has shown that if the disease cause is bacterial and if the disease process is caught early enough, treatment with Romet B, a broad spectrum antibacterial, *may* be effective when used concurrent with an increase in water temperature to 84-86ºF for 2 weeks minimum.
BE CERTAIN to maintain HIGH OXYGEN LEVELS during such treatment since at these temperatures, water holds significantly less oxygen at these higher water temperatures. One of the suspected bacterial precursors to the disease process -- Aeromonas, is killed at these temperatures.
Concurrently add 1/8 teaspoon of EPSOM SALT -- per 5 gallons of water . Feeding foods soaked in ERYTHROMYCIN will kill the second suspected bacteria, Mycobacterium. In rare cases popeye has been found to be caused by Edwardsiella etarda. This is found *only* in fish that have been bred in outdoor ponds -- the functional bacteria in this case is carried by frogs. While fair to good results in treatment have been found by feeding Romet B., even better results have been found using injectable chloramphenicol or amakacin. This is best done by your veterinarian.
If parasites are a known cause, treat for them first for 3 days increasing the temperature to 86ºF as fast as possible.
EPSOM SALT may help reduce the internal pressure caused by the swelling. Extremely good aeration is necessary here due to the use of such high temperatures.
NEVER USE SALT (sodium chloride, a.k.a. aquarium salt) for treatment of dropsy. This will KILL your fish in a very short time. The affected fish are already having a difficult time getting rid of salts due to kidney dysfunction. This causes the blown up appearance and concurrent scale standing. The osmotic imbalance caused by addition of sodium to your tank water will make this condition far worse.
EPSOM SALT on the other hand, does not pass through the walls of the gut or gills and will extract water OUT of the surrounding tissue into the gut where it *may* be excreted.
My treatment for Bloat is Metronidazole. Never had a problem using it with catfish in the tank.
To treat Bloat, the plan of attack is:
Metronidazole and water changes, water changes, water changes!!
1. Remove carbon/resins from filter.
2. Perform a 30-50% water change (reduces free-floating bacteria population)
3. Add salt (teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon) to aid the fish's osmotic regulation processes.
4. Treat with 250mg/20gallons of Metronidazole (Flagyl)
5. Leave for 3 days and do not feed.
6. After 3 days, perform another large water change.
7. Replace the salt.
8. Add full dosage of Metronidazole.
9. Wait another 3 days. During this phase, the bloat should be decreasing in appearance. In large fish, the water may take on an ammonia odor from the high volume of urea the fish should now be producing due to reducing the bloat and recovering renal activity.
10. 3rd day, another water change. Also, replace the salt and redose the metronidazole (full dose). If the fish looks to be well on the road to recovery you can offer a small feeding each day.
11. Another water change. No meds but, I'd recommend the salt. You should be clear now.
This is the treatment I use on my africans, puffers, and my lungfishes/polypteridae. Knock on wood that it's worked every single time
To treat Bloat, the plan of attack is:
Metronidazole and water changes, water changes, water changes!!
1. Remove carbon/resins from filter.
2. Perform a 30-50% water change (reduces free-floating bacteria population)
3. Add salt (teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon) to aid the fish's osmotic regulation processes.
4. Treat with 250mg/20gallons of Metronidazole (Flagyl)
5. Leave for 3 days and do not feed.
6. After 3 days, perform another large water change.
7. Replace the salt.
8. Add full dosage of Metronidazole.
9. Wait another 3 days. During this phase, the bloat should be decreasing in appearance. In large fish, the water may take on an ammonia odor from the high volume of urea the fish should now be producing due to reducing the bloat and recovering renal activity.
10. 3rd day, another water change. Also, replace the salt and redose the metronidazole (full dose). If the fish looks to be well on the road to recovery you can offer a small feeding each day.
11. Another water change. No meds but, I'd recommend the salt. You should be clear now.
This is the treatment I use on my africans, puffers, and my lungfishes/polypteridae. Knock on wood that it's worked every single time
So far the clout treatment is going good. Here are the specs you asked for
Tank size 280 gallons with 120 gallon sump.
I do about 100 gallon water change every two weeks, estimation.
Tank temp is constant 82 degrees.
Water params are perfect 0 of everything, 8.0 PH
I have a few various fish other than African including some Tiger Barbs, Giant Danios and Silver Dollars (I know, not your typical tankmates but it works)
I tried epsom salt and water changes before jumping to the clout. I was losing fish at an alarming rate but only cichlids. All other fish were doing great and still are. We will see how the cichlids fare after treatment.
Tank size 280 gallons with 120 gallon sump.
I do about 100 gallon water change every two weeks, estimation.
Tank temp is constant 82 degrees.
Water params are perfect 0 of everything, 8.0 PH
I have a few various fish other than African including some Tiger Barbs, Giant Danios and Silver Dollars (I know, not your typical tankmates but it works)
I tried epsom salt and water changes before jumping to the clout. I was losing fish at an alarming rate but only cichlids. All other fish were doing great and still are. We will see how the cichlids fare after treatment.